Wine & Gold

[Splitz]

...afraid to thank.

Shaved beaver for fellow mods..

 

[The Common Man]

[deleted]

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Remember when he told us we had agreed on a deal for Amar'e, and then the media reported we got Jamison, and he changed his story to explain how it all went down? Good times.

No, I don't remember that at all....what I remember distinctly is him making a post about how the talks were heating up and Dan Gilbert was now involved in order to push the process forward and put the pressure on the Suns' front office to give us an answer which they had been waffling on just like they did in Shaq talks the prior season. The Suns just ended up not taking the deal. He NEVER, not ONCE, told us that a deal for Amare was done and the revisionist history by you in your post is comical at best and sad at its' core.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

W&G: I am hearing that the Cavaliers are active and there are some very interesting names being tossed around"

RCF Fanboy: Wine and gold, are you hearing any Cavs rumors?

W&G: There is always consistent dialogue around executives in the league and the Cavs are included in this executives. Every team will have talks from time to time and the grind of the long season and the patience of the organization will pay off if the right deal comes around. I am not hearing any names associated to the Cavs at this time.

Windhorst: Cavaliers in pursuit of Amare Stoudemire for the last several days

BigFoot post a few days later...: I can confirm that the Cavaliers are in pursuit of Amare Stoudemire and have been doing so over the weekend and through the all star break... but no deal is imminent and that is all the light I can shed at this time. The Cavs are working very hard and will continue to try and pursue any way to make the team better Translation: BLAH BLAH.

Honestly... the truth is, he's probably just as much of a bandwagon fan as anyone else. He was able to ride the wave of the James era here and enjoyed toying with so many posters this board had at is peak. Why would he not post here at all anymore? Less of an audience!

I could care less about his rep or my rep or what people say about my posts, lol @ those of you calling people jealous of W&G. He's an average schmuck who could have easily been THE BEER GUY at the Q or Progressive Field for all any of us know.

The only way for us to really know more is for the Mods to shed light on it. Now, I wait for a mafia style clipping at my house tonight.

Go find posts he made that followed that pattern(well, I'm not sure we even can anymore with the new software), along with links to articles with dates that prove your point instead of just creating a false, biased, portrayal of how things went down with absolutely NO evidence to back your claims up.

I think the idea should be really simple to grasp, we know that the mods and admins have REAL contacts with the team in different aspects(be it beat writers or whatever). Their contacts probably know who W&G is, and if those guys are telling us he was legit, I have no reason whatsoever to question them. You have to remember that with the nature of knowing a lot of stuff, you have to be vague. Windhorst probably reported 15% of the things he heard to us, if that. Max has to be very careful with every post he makes in those terms because of potential consequences. Hell, if Chris Broussard would have never broken the Amare story so prematurely, we might still have LeBron our team and maybe even a Larry O Brien in the trophy case.

There's going to be a very vague nature to all posts like that, those looking for Denny Ferry's entire schedule and the content of every conversation he had with every team in the league were always going to be disappointed, those looking for an insight into the game and the way things worked that not many people could provide to an internet forum greatly appreciated what Wine and Gold brought to the forum and would love to have him back even if he doesn't have a single inside source left outside of J.J.'s grandma.

 

[SanduskyCav]

No, I don't remember that at all....what I remember distinctly is him making a post about how the talks were heating up and Dan Gilbert was now involved in order to push the process forward and put the pressure on the Suns' front office to give us an answer which they had been waffling on just like they did in Shaq talks the prior season. The Suns just ended up not taking the deal. He NEVER, not ONCE, told us that a deal for Amare was done and the revisionist history by you in your post is comical at best and sad at its' core.

I dunno. I think you are wrong. I remember W&G saying that the Amare deal is a done deal and like 15 minutes later we made the trade for Jamison... It would be nice to see if someone could find it, I could be misremembering...

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I dunno. I think you are wrong. I remember W&G saying that the Amare deal is a done deal and like 15 minutes later we made the trade for Jamison... It would be nice to see if someone could find it, I could be misremembering...

I know he never called anything a done deal. He said that his source felt good about our chances at landing Amare once Dan Gilbert put the pressure on the Suns, but he never said that there had been an agreement or a done deal.

edit: I couldn't find the 2010 Amare Safari or any of the 2010 W&G stuff...

BUT.. here's the Shaq thread from the summer of 2009

http://realcavsfans.com/showthread....egy-(Shaq-a-Cav-pg-18)/page20&highlight=Amare

Notice how W&G confirms Shaq being a done deal 17 minutes before , not after(looking at you, Falb) Windhorst. So, there goes the idea of every scoop he brought being regurgitated from Windhorst.

 

[sjeppe]

One of the Mods said w&g was a scout who had a hand in us drafting Hickson.

 

[Falb7]

I know he never called anything a done deal. He said that his source felt good about our chances at landing Amare once Dan Gilbert put the pressure on the Suns, but he never said that there had been an agreement or a done deal.

edit: I couldn't find the 2010 Amare Safari or any of the 2010 W&G stuff...

BUT.. here's the Shaq thread from the summer of 2009

http://realcavsfans.com/showthread....egy-(Shaq-a-Cav-pg-18)/page20&highlight=Amare

Notice how W&G confirms Shaq being a done deal 17 minutes before , not after(looking at you, Falb) Windhorst. So, there goes the idea of every scoop he brought being regurgitated from Windhorst.

The Shaq deal was first broken by Chris Broussard on SportsCenter, a day or so before the 2009 draft... I remember the night well.

 

[The Oi]

Go find posts he made that followed that pattern(well, I'm not sure we even can anymore with the new software), along with links to articles with dates that prove your point instead of just creating a false, biased, portrayal of how things went down with absolutely NO evidence to back your claims up.

Not even claiming W&G was or wasn't legit here, because I have no idea and no way of confirming anything one way or the other. But I will say, that almost EVERY single one of his posts followed the formula that Falb described. The large, LARGE majority of his posts featured broad generalizations backed by what seemed to be a very strong knowledge of the game of basketball. Almost every one of his predictions ended up being incorrect. Like I'm talking well over 75% if not even as high as the 90% area. You could say the same thing for many beat writers and national media pundits, so I'm not sure that's necessarily an indicator of his legitimacy or not. Whoever his "sources" were could have been unreliable through no fault of their own. If anything, I'm just saying the guy's predictions or hints at inside information- outside of the game of basketball itself- were off a very large majority of the time.

The one thing I did notice was that every once in a while he'd slip in some personal information about a player that wouldn't be readily available to your average dude. I buy him having very close connections to the organization pretty much without question. It was just that the inside information was very rarely on.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Not even claiming W&G was or wasn't legit here, because I have no idea and no way of confirming anything one way or the other. But I will say, that almost EVERY single one of his posts followed the formula that Falb described. The large, LARGE majority of his posts featured broad generalizations backed by what seemed to be a very strong knowledge of the game of basketball. Almost every one of his predictions ended up being incorrect. Like I'm talking well over 75% if not even as high as the 90% area. You could say the same thing for many beat writers and national media pundits, so I'm not sure that's necessarily an indicator of his legitimacy or not. Whoever his "sources" were could have been unreliable through no fault of their own. If anything, I'm just saying the guy's predictions or hints at inside information- outside of the game of basketball itself- were off a very large majority of the time.

The one thing I did notice was that every once in a while he'd slip in some personal information about a player that wouldn't be readily available to your average dude. I buy him having very close connections to the organization pretty much without question. It was just that the inside information was very rarely on.

I think you can chalk that up to just the volatile nature of "inside information" itself. It's easy to bash W&G's clout as an "insider" because of wrong predictions, but the reality is in what I said before, outside of the less than 100 people who probably know about what's going to happen in the NBA, you're dealing with getting small nuggets of information which you then have break down into smaller nuggets of information in order to not ruin a potential deal. Even the top insiders, the guys with more contacts than anyone else, the Chad Fords, Marc Stein's, Windhorsts, etc always did things the exact way W&G did it. Again, if Falb wants to think W&G was a fraud because he didn't post details about everything Danny Ferry did, he can go ahead and do that.

I think the criticism of him not being legitimately connected based off of some of his predictions about roster transactions being wrong is idiotic because it shows a lack of understanding for the nature of the business. Just because you were wrong about an end outcome does not mean you weren't clued in big time during the process. We saw that with the LeBron thing this summer as well with other sources. Very clued in people were very wrong and a moron like Stephen A Smith ended up being the first with the proper outcome. Does the outcome suddenly legitimize Stephen A Smith? Because it shouldn't..

 

[Nom]

Sorry if I missed this earlier in the thread, and I don't mean to sound like a "I demand he posts!" kind of guy - but does he still follow RCF and remain involved with the organization? I don't care about hearing anything right now, but be fun to know if we'll have his inside scoop around the trade deadline this year.

 

[CBBI]

Sorry if I missed this earlier in the thread, and I don't mean to sound like a "I demand he posts!" kind of guy - but does he still follow RCF and remain involved with the organization? I don't care about hearing anything right now, but be fun to know if we'll have his inside scoop around the trade deadline this year.

He moved south....

 

[BigErieCavsFan]

He moved south....

I guess they don't have the Internet down south...

 

[camakazee]

I'm not going to address any of the pinheadedness in this thread, but rather tell a quick story to defend W&G's reputation.

Whether or not you liked his inside information or thought the guy was full of shit, he is very legit. He helped me out in a big way a few months back and his name carries a lot of clout in the world of Cleveland hoops. (His real name -- don't go run up a huge tab at Barley House and say you know W&G at the end of the night :chuckles. While I ultimately chose to go in another direction, I'm very thankful for his aid and think it speaks volumes for RCF's reputation to have a man of his stature as a contributer.

 

[cavfanintexas]

not sure how a guy gets a billion thanks, when he was posting and now is getting shamed for not posting, his post had more insight and knowledge than 90% of other posters combined, the man know basketball end of story.