Yes to Issue 3?

[Sea]

Detroit screwed up by putting 3 casinos within the city limits plus the draw of Windsor just across the bridge.

the draw of Vegas is a $200 flight away from Cleveland, the draw to Detroit, Erie, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Wheeling are just short drives away.

Look, I like to gamble, I will go to the casino, all I'm saying is that the people who think this will help Cleveland are nuts. It will help downtown, but the overall state of the economy in Cleveland and it's burbs will go unchanged, and if it changes at all it will change for the worse. People aren't going to be flying in from all over to gamble here, and people won't even be driving here because every major city within 4 hours of us has casinos now.

 

[BlueSeats626]

Look, I like to gamble, I will go to the casino, all I'm saying is that the people who think this will help Cleveland are nuts. It will help downtown, but the overall state of the economy in Cleveland and it's burbs will go unchanged, and if it changes at all it will change for the worse. People aren't going to be flying in from all over to gamble here, and people won't even be driving here because every major city within 4 hours of us has casinos now.

People who live in this area have no real reason to come downtown aside from sporting events. This is a big step towards improving that. I'd like too see a casino project revitalize downtown areas such as the Euclid Corridor. This city can't keep sitting around just waiting for everything to take a turn for the better.

 

[johnnycake44022]

the draw of Vegas is a $200 flight away from Cleveland, the draw to Detroit, Erie, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Wheeling are just short drives away.

Look, I like to gamble, I will go to the casino, all I'm saying is that the people who think this will help Cleveland are nuts. It will help downtown, but the overall state of the economy in Cleveland and it's burbs will go unchanged, and if it changes at all it will change for the worse. People aren't going to be flying in from all over to gamble here, and people won't even be driving here because every major city within 4 hours of us has casinos now.

I think the thing about Cleveland is people go there for games, plays, etc and then leave. There is no real reason to stay down there, especially if you are not into the bar scene. A NICE casino is a reason for people to stay downtown for longer periods before or after a game or show at one of the theatres. Its also another draw for people coming out of town (to see the rock hall of fame, etc). Not sure why some people are so against it really.

 

[Maximus]

but hey we made a Michigan guy and Pennsylvania company rich!!

Charities and non-profit companies aren't going to come here and turn things around. For any business to come here and be a success, someone has to get rich....it might as well be Dan Gilbert. He's proven a willingness to invest and re-invest his money in Cleveland. He's one of the few businessman willing to do that right now. I applaude him.

Follow the money trail of the opposition to Issue 3. Funny thing is, it was a Cleveland guy that didn't want his West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Indiana businesses to get negatively impacted. He wanted the billions of dollars and jobs to stay out of Ohio in the surrounding states. Of course, had he been involved, he would have been all for it. :chuckles:

Nearly all of the opposition's money came from either MTR Gaming or Jeff Jacobs, the Cleveland developer who is also a major player in MTR.

"After weeks of refusing to acknowledge where their funding has come from, there's now no doubt whatsoever that Truth PAC is a front for Jeff Jacobs and MTR. They've provided way over 90 percent of [Truth PAC's] money," said Bob Tenenbaum, spokesman for the Ohio Jobs and Growth Committee financed by Penn National Gaming Inc. and Cleveland Cavaliers majority owner Dan Gilbert.

 

[MoFlo]

the draw of Vegas is a $200 flight away from Cleveland, the draw to Detroit, Erie, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Wheeling are just short drives away.

Look, I like to gamble, I will go to the casino, all I'm saying is that the people who think this will help Cleveland are nuts. It will help downtown, but the overall state of the economy in Cleveland and it's burbs will go unchanged, and if it changes at all it will change for the worse. People aren't going to be flying in from all over to gamble here, and people won't even be driving here because every major city within 4 hours of us has casinos now.

Well, Columbus & Cincinnati just got gambling with Cleveland.. but the casinos in the other areas received A LOT of business from Ohioans.. we might as well keep all that money in the state..

but hey we made a Michigan guy and Pennsylvania company rich!!

Um, am I missing something.. seems to me like they were already pretty rich..

 

[Erbium]

Charities and non-profit companies aren't going to come here and turn things around. For any business to come here and be a success, someone has to get rich....it might as well be Dan Gilbert. He's proven a willingness to invest and re-invest his money in Cleveland. He's one of the few businessman willing to do that right now. I applaude him.

Follow the money trail of the opposition to Issue 3. Funny thing is, it was a Cleveland guy that didn't want his West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Indiana businesses to get negatively impacted. He wanted the billions of dollars and jobs to stay out of Ohio in the surrounding states. Of course, had he been involved, he would have been all for it. :chuckles:

Look, to be honest, besides the debate of whether this is good or bad, seems to me Cleveland won big here. The location is ideal, and Gilbert (yes, he does reside in MI) has vested interest in making that Cleveland casino a sight to behold. Hell, if Gilbert can get his hands on the Indians, the guy will nearly own the entire city.

That said, i no longer live in Cleveland. I do, however, spend a great deal of time in Columbus.(A city that is growing and getting their shit together....without bonafide professional sports....without looking for a miracle to save the day) Looking at these numbers, and the fact Franklin county voted this down, they sure get boned in this. They were steamrolled by the manufacturing cities. A $250million dollar single story Hollywood casino going into an area that has already been resurrected? Sure sounds like a dumb idea to me. My gripe at this point is, Cleveland and Cincy eliminated Columbus and Toledo's chances of getting a great casino (or no casino at all). Now that this has passed, this company has no need to step up their game and do something impressive in these areas. We have one option. Take this shitty casino you don't even want. If Cleveland wanted this, great. But why does Columbus get screwed? There was a better way....Gilbert and his cronies however, fed off the fear of Cincy and Cleveland natives to steamroll the entire state.

My dream of a Montreal rip-off, with Casino's on Kelly's Island and Put-N-Bay (which by the way would present a barrier to entry....just charge $50 cash up front to get on the ferry) is also likely gone....

 

[Chardon]

If the casino is a success, then other business might look at it, and see that it has success and move operations here/ or build here. ( But that is a very simplistic idea )
At the very least, it will give us somthing to do other the the rock n roll hall of fame, or the science center, or sporting events. It wpuld be very cool if it was right on the lakeshore up against the water like where that ugly ass Benjamin Q. whatever flight school is. We could build restraunts along with it...

 

[Sea]

If the casino is a success, then other business might look at it, and see that it has success and move operations here/ or build here. ( But that is a very simplistic idea )
At the very least, it will give us somthing to do other the the rock n roll hall of fame, or the science center, or sporting events. It wpuld be very cool if it was right on the lakeshore up against the water like where that ugly ass Benjamin Q. whatever flight school is. We could build restraunts along with it...

the reasons businesses don't move here is because the local government doesn't make it appeasing for businesses to come and stay here. It has nothing to do with if the casino will work or not, has much to do with how businesses are treated by the local government in regards to taxes. Companies can move to wherever they want, Cleveland dares them to do so and they do it

 

[DougHeil]

the draw of Vegas is a $200 flight away from Cleveland, the draw to Detroit, Erie, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Wheeling are just short drives away.

Look, I like to gamble, I will go to the casino, all I'm saying is that the people who think this will help Cleveland are nuts. It will help downtown, but the overall state of the economy in Cleveland and it's burbs will go unchanged, and if it changes at all it will change for the worse. People aren't going to be flying in from all over to gamble here, and people won't even be driving here because every major city within 4 hours of us has casinos now.

What do the people who actually live in Cleveland and the vicinity do when they want to gamble? Don't they drive to Michigan or Penn or go to Vegas or the East coast, and anywhere else but staying in Cleveland to gamble? Won't it be nice to keep real Clevelanders who gamble inside Cleveland? Won't it be nice to keep the Ohioans who gamble inside of Ohio instead of those thousands of people fleeing Ohio to spend their gambling dollars in other states? I think so.

As far as a few people getting richer for it, kudos to them! I'd much rather have someone like Dan Gilbert getting richer than anyone else. When anything becomes successful that just might create more jobs for others, someone or something has to get rich first before more jobs follow. Jobs don't happen just because we wish them to happen. A company, a firm, a project needs people behind that success in order to become a success to begin with. We don't have machines and robots ruling the Earth..... (yet), so a real human being has to be the original source of the success.... and it's usually only one person or firm.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Look, to be honest, besides the debate of whether this is good or bad, seems to me Cleveland won big here. The location is ideal, and Gilbert (yes, he does reside in MI) has vested interest in making that Cleveland casino a sight to behold. Hell, if Gilbert can get his hands on the Indians, the guy will nearly own the entire city.

That said, i no longer live in Cleveland. I do, however, spend a great deal of time in Columbus.(A city that is growing and getting their shit together....without bonafide professional sports....without looking for a miracle to save the day) Looking at these numbers, and the fact Franklin county voted this down, they sure get boned in this. They were steamrolled by the manufacturing cities. A $250million dollar single story Hollywood casino going into an area that has already been resurrected? Sure sounds like a dumb idea to me. My gripe at this point is, Cleveland and Cincy eliminated Columbus and Toledo's chances of getting a great casino (or no casino at all). Now that this has passed, this company has no need to step up their game and do something impressive in these areas. We have one option. Take this shitty casino you don't even want. If Cleveland wanted this, great. But why does Columbus get screwed? There was a better way....Gilbert and his cronies however, fed off the fear of Cincy and Cleveland natives to steamroll the entire state.

My dream of a Montreal rip-off, with Casino's on Kelly's Island and Put-N-Bay (which by the way would present a barrier to entry....just charge $50 cash up front to get on the ferry) is also likely gone....

As far as I'm concerned..

:fu: Columbus

:yay: for Cleveland.

 

[Sea]

What do the people who actually live in Cleveland and the vicinity do when they want to gamble? Don't they drive to Michigan or Penn or go to Vegas or the East coast, and anywhere else but staying in Cleveland to gamble? Won't it be nice to keep real Clevelanders who gamble inside Cleveland? Won't it be nice to keep the Ohioans who gamble inside of Ohio instead of those thousands of people fleeing Ohio to spend their gambling dollars in other states? I think so.

As far as a few people getting richer for it, kudos to them! I'd much rather have someone like Dan Gilbert getting richer than anyone else. When anything becomes successful that just might create more jobs for others, someone or something has to get rich first before more jobs follow. Jobs don't happen just because we wish them to happen. A company, a firm, a project needs people behind that success in order to become a success to begin with. We don't have machines and robots ruling the Earth..... (yet), so a real human being has to be the original source of the success.... and it's usually only one person or firm.

I love to gamble, but I never have a sudden urge where I just crave it. I guess sometimes I do, but it's never table games, I like betting sports.

Look, I understand that people in Ohio gamble (I do), but the stats that say 1/3 of all Ohioans visit a casino each year are misleading, they fail to take into account that a large majority of those visit casinos in Las Vegas, and that the reason they visit Vegas is not because of the casino. So when they talk about a billion dollars leaving the state, it's really a stat you should see through. That's not a billion being spent in Michigan and West Virginia, as most of that money is in Las Vegas.

For example, I went to Las Vegas twice last year. The first time was for a corporate convention and the second time was to go to the USC/Ohio State game in which we stayed in Vegas for the week then drove to LA. Now, in both of those cases I entered a casino and gambled, so I would fit into the statistic, but neither of those trips could have been substituted for Cleveland, and neither of those trips were to strictly gamble. So while it may appear as just another Ohioan gambling in another state, that wasn't the reason for it. So that is why the stat is flawed. People go to Vegas because they have the best clubs, shopping, dining and hotels in the world. They go to be treated like kings and queens for a week. That is why people go to Vegas. This is why no matter how many states build casinos, Vegas still thrives building bigger and better hotels year after year. Vegas is Vegas and no midwestern town can change perception and history.

I would say that maybe 1/5th of Ohioans who gamble do it in Michigan and West Virginia. Which I don't see it as a reason to build 3 casinos. If you want tourism and foot traffic, look at Michigan Avenue. Look at Legacy Village on a weekend night. People come from all over the midwest to shop on Michigan Avenue. They come to spend their money and enjoy themselves. People in Cleveland do the same thing in the suburbs. Just a thought, there are other ways to get people downtown.

 

[Maximus]

The casinos aren't being built just for Ohioans and to keep them from going to Vegas or surrounding states. It's also to give out of towners another a reason to come here. It's just one part. It's been a joke for too long - "there's nothing to do in Cleveland". Fans from out of town teams will be more inclined to travel here to see their team play the cavs, browns or tribe if there is a casino. I go to a lot of the Pistons/Cavs playoff games. Every single time I head up there I go to a casino. I'm not a huge gambler, but it's part of the reason my friends and I are more willing to go on a road trip....not because Detroit is a nice city.

For Cleveland, it's not just about the casino. It's the convention center, medical mart, casino, cavs, tribe, browns, R&R HOF, etc. Its an effort to remake the city as a whole and give people more reasons to come here. God willing we'll eventually develop the river and lakefront...those resources are being totally wasted.

 

[Sea]

The casinos aren't being built just for Ohioans and to keep them from going to Vegas or surrounding states. It's also to give out of towners another a reason to come here. It's just one part. It's been a joke for too long - "there's nothing to do in Cleveland". Fans from out of town teams will be more inclined to travel here to see their team play the cavs, browns or tribe if there is a casino. I go to a lot of the Pistons/Cavs playoff games. Every single time I head up there I go to a casino. I'm not a huge gambler, but it's part of the reason my friends and I are more willing to go on a road trip....not because Detroit is a nice city.

For Cleveland, it's not just about the casino. It's the convention center, medical mart, casino, cavs, tribe, browns, R&R HOF, etc. Its an effort to remake the city as a whole and give people more reasons to come here. God willing we'll eventually develop the river and lakefront...those resources are being totally wasted.

are you still going to go to Detroit to go to playoff games when Cleveland has a casino?

 

[The Oi]

For Cleveland, it's not just about the casino. It's the convention center, medical mart

What's going on with this lately? I am out of the loop but IMO it's something that needs to happen and needs to happen as close to downtown as possible.

 

[Maximus]

are you still going to go to Detroit to go to playoff games when Cleveland has a casino?

Sure. But I wouldn't have gone to as many if they didn't have a casino over the last few years. That was part of the sale to get my friends and I to travel there. It will work the same way here.

Ask any fan of an out of town sports team, ask anyone considering attending a convention which scenario is more likely to get them to travel to Cleveland -
-Cleveland with a major casino
-Cleveland without a major casino

It is going to attract more visitors.