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So long, Kay Felder

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Jon said:
Good plan, but it takes two. I've asked you in the past to PM me if you have an issue with my posting or ask another mod to intervene. You're of course an admin now, and if you don't want me replying to your posts or even posting at all, you just have to ask, but banning me for a week over something you started ... that's just crappy.
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You don't get a say in that, Jon. When you come back Tuesday we can talk about Kay Felder, but that is all I plan on addressing. Attempts to make this personal haven't been working out for you.
 
Jon said:
Good plan, but it takes two. I've asked you in the past to PM me if you have an issue with my posting or ask another mod to intervene. You're of course an admin now, and if you don't want me replying to your posts or even posting at all, you just have to ask, but banning me for a week over something you started ... that's just crappy.

You said yourself you've missed parts of the games. It's not "personal" to ask you if you missed the parts where Kay looked good, and didn't deserve a snarky response like "I'm not here for a debate against the Devil's Advocate. I'm here to discuss reality." or "Grow up".

Obviously this thread has missed me. Nobody to point out for instance that while Shumpert's +/- is -20 in the past 2 games, that Kay's is +2.

Did he look over-matched against Portland's starters in the 4th quarter leading the second unit? Yeah, of course, that's expected for a rook and is part of the learning experience. Alas the rest of the team had no such excuse.
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I was really surprised they didn't put hijm back in against the Jazz when nothing was working. He was at least able to get a step on Gobert. Personally, If I were Kay I would just Drive and Kick. If you are wide open go for the cup, but otherwise kick it to Channing, Jefferson, or Korver. He basically has better shooters than the starting unit.

As a pg, i don't think there is a better way to get your feet wet than to develop a little chemistry with a big man. 2 great instances. Delly and TT pick and roll. Boobie and Shaq dump to the post and if nothing is going kick out for 3 on the double. Both of those were super effective. I thought Boobie was reviving his career with Shaq as that small stretch where they played in the 2nd unit before Shaq broke his thump was awesome. Kay could absolutely build something like that with Channing. I'd run the drive and kick with him until they stopped it.
 
I wouldn't just say that Kay Felder would benefit from focusing on his drive and kick game, I'd say the whole team would radically improve if Felder focuses on being a facilitator rather than looking for his own shot.

@LeShaq did some nice work on his previous post by looking at Felder's stretch on increased play and examining an overall decrease of assists in that timeframe. What I felt was left out, to the detriment of the study, was Felder's role in those decreased team assists.

Against Charlotte, Felder played 19 minutes and got a lot of great press. He attacked the basket and shot 5-6. He should have taken those shots because he was feeling it. However, look at those 2 assists from a point guard in 19 minutes and you begin to see what led to Felder's decrease in playing time later.

Next game against New Orleans - not a great team - he logs 22 minutes and shoots 6-11 but only gets 2 assists. Was he beginning to impress those watching with his scoring? Absolutely, but the other four players on the floor weren't touching the ball as much as when LBJ or Kyrie were orchestrating the offense. He was, again, playing more of a shooting guard role.

Chicago game seemed to me to be the point where the opponent caught up on Felder. In 16 minutes he shot 3 -11 and in the first quarter they closed on his drives, daring him to kick the ball out. Often, he put up shots against three defenders in front of him. He finished with one assist, and LeBron joined Ty Lue calling for a backup point guard publicly.

So we can create omitted variable bias statistical studies all day, but there's a reason Felder saw himself fall out of the rotation in the second half of games recently. He is putting up shots but the other players need their touches off the drive or else it's just Felder vs. the world, and his teammates are too good for that kind of offense.
 
Yep, Felder was bad against the Bulls. He and the bench blew that game. They absolutely did. Makes sense, too, because Felder was a -10 in the game and we lost by 12 (-12). He hurt us there, as did the entire bench. This was Felder's worst +/- game in the last 7 contests through the Blazers game.

More stats to come as I get a chance to watch more film. I think that the more data people have, the more they'll understand exactly what Felder is and is not doing. It's tough to communicate or debate a topic when some people in the discussion may lack objective (numerical) data in their analyses. Because it then often becomes fact versus subjective opinion, and that's not a fair format or fight for those lacking the data.

One reason why Felder has played less, particularly in the last 4 games, is because Kyrie returned to action. There have been, then, fewer "backup" point guard minutes to go around since Kyrie's come back.

It is not a coincidence that Felder's first "break out" game of the season, against the Grizzlies in Memphis, came when Kyrie sat.
 
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Now, let's build off the minutes played information from the last 7 games because it perhaps gives insight into what I think Lue may be doing as regards Felder and McRae.

@CHO -----> Kyrie out............Felder 19 minutes; McRae 31 minutes (starts)
NOP -------> Kyrie out.............Felder 22 minutes; McRae 16 minutes (starts)
CHI --------> Kyrie out.............Felder 16 minutes; McRae 33 minutes (starts)
@BRK ------> Kyrie 36 min.......Felder 04 minutes; McRae 10 minutes
@PHX ------> Kyrie 40 min.......Felder 08 minutes; McRae 00 minutes
@UTA ------> Kyrie 39 min.......Felder 05 minutes; McRae 01 minutes
@POR ------> Kyrie 31 min.......Felder 13 minutes; McRae 07 minutes [back to back game]


The pattern here, except for the Brooklyn game, appears to be that Felder plays more than McRae (at least as a PG) when Kyrie also plays in the game. What might that mean?

To me (and this is speculation), that means that Lue may want to keep Felder locked into the "backup PG" role. Which would/could be why McRae starts when Kyrie is out. You don't want a guy to get out of his role. Felder has never started a game this year, and I don't think that's an accident. And that included when Kyrie sat and soon after Felder lit it up in the D-League on December 28, 2016 (for example, the Hornets game was on December 31, 2016).

In this sense, then, McRae would have been fulfilling the "spot starter" role to keep Felder in Felder's backup point guard spot. And this seems to follow from the data (except the Nets game), as McRae seems like the "3rd wheel" at point guard now with Kyrie back and Felder seeming to get the bulk of the backup point guard minutes.

I believe that Lue said something about keeping guys in their roles in the preseason or at the start of the regular season, but I can't remember when he said it. I don't think it was about Felder (may have been about Liggins or Shumpert), but the point was transferable -- we don't want to take guys out of their roles, so if a starter goes down we might start someone else (so, using a 3rd string guy as spot starter rather than making a backup guy a starter) so as to keep continuity.

I have to watch the Pelicans game again. Not sure why Felder ended up with more minutes than McRae in that one, despite McRae starting. That's the other apparent "aberration" on this chart. Felder played well in that game, so maybe Lue just stayed with him over McRae. Not sure.
 
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Numbers are great and all, but I think most of us would be content if he would just get more comfortable with teammates and facilitate more, settle into his role even if he isnt making shots. I dont need to see his +/- to know he needs to work on that.

And when he does inevitably get some run in Canton, that should be goal number one, getting his teammates involved instead of going for 40. His line should be an efficient 20-25 points and double digit assists in every game.

That said, I just dont see how the Cavs add an impactful backup PG until buyout season. I'm sure Griff is trying, but he doesnt have assets to deal and there just isnt much out there to deal for...
 
jlegg21 said:
Numbers are great and all, but I think most of us would be content if he would just get more comfortable with teammates and facilitate more, settle into his role even if he isnt making shots. I dont need to see his +/- to know he needs to work on that.

And when he does inevitably get some run in Canton, that should be goal number one, getting his teammates involved instead of going for 40. His line should be an efficient 20-25 points and double digit assists in every game.

That said, I just dont see how the Cavs add an impactful backup PG until buyout season. I'm sure Griff is trying, but he doesnt have assets to deal and there just isnt much out there to deal for...
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* Felder's key "thing to work on" right now, in my research, is his shooting. I am more worried about it than I am his defense or passing.

* I would LOVE to get Calderon from the Lakers. And I think he might be able to be bought out, because he's in the last year of his deal and he appears to be the third string PG on the team at the moment (behind Russell and Clarkson).

As I've said before, I'm not wed to Felder. If we can get someone better, please, let's get him and send Felder to D-League.

I'm just examining Felder because he's on the team and he's one of our only options (and he's a rookie and we thus don't know a lot about him yet as an NBA player). Hopefully that won't be the case for long (we'll have other options).

I do like him, and I do think he has promise, but I'd rather go with someone else at the moment if we can get something done soon.
 
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jlegg21 said:
most of us would be content if he would just get more comfortable with teammates and facilitate more, settle into his role
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So, let's look at just this part of the thing. I've only had the chance to go over the Hornets game (of that 7-game set starting with the Hornets) and break this down, but I think it's instructive.

OVERALL
Felder 6 FGA, 8 would-be assists (including 2 actual assists). Thus, he was actually looking to pass more than he was looking to shoot.

FELDER's GAME SEQUENCE (chronological order of the game for Felder)

Steal 1 while guarding the ball
Assist 1 to LeBron for a three-pointer
Starts around-the-horn passing sequence to LeBron to Jefferson for missed three-pointer (this does not count as would-be assist but would be "hockey assist")
End First
Score 1 on lefty floater from a drive
Score 2 on catch-and-shoot left corner three-pointer from LeBron pass
Assist 2 to Frye for a three-pointer
End Half
Score 3 on catch-and-shoot left corner three-pointer from LeBron pass
Free Throws 1&2 as fouled on drive to hoop for lefty layup try. Goes 1/2 on FT's
End Third
Would-Be Assist 1 to Kevin Love for missed three-pointer
Would-Be Assist 2 to Iman Shumpert for missed left corner three-pointer
Would-Be Assist 3 to Kevin Love for missed bank shot. (shot was goaltended, but not called as such)
Would-Be Assist 4 to Kevin Love for blocked turnaround jump shot
Score 4 on reverse layup
Score 5 on midrange jumper in transition
Would-Be Assist 5 to Kevin Love for missed layup
Would-Be Assist 6 to Richard Jefferson for missed three-point shot
Miss 1 on a failed runner shot
END GAME

Now, every game isn't going to look this good because Felder played well in the game. But if you look at the statline, only, from the contest it looks like Felder (13 points on 6 FGA, only 2 assists) may have been just trying to "get his" while not moving the ball. But that's not the case.

I'm doing this research for myself, to try to learn more about what Kay's doing. But (as with listening to "Hey Windy" and sharing that info), I'm happy to share it with others so that we can all get more of a complete picture about what's going on in the games.
 
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Jon said:
Obviously this thread has missed me. Nobody to point out for instance that while Shumpert's +/- is -20 in the past 2 games, that Kay's is +2.
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1) Nobody pointed it out because it's a really stupid statistic. +/- with no context is the most worthless boxscore metric there is.

2) This isn't the Iman Shumpert thread. If you're looking for criticism of Iman Shumpert, go there. There's plenty of it.

3) If you're trying to argue that Felder has actually been good, because, hey, look at Iman SHumpert, then I'm afraid you haven't been watching the last two games because Iman Shumpert has also been quite dreadful.
 
Yeah its live now, doesn't have DVR functionality on facebook live so I will wait until its over and just watch the Felder parts lol
 
FELDER IN THE D-LEAGUE

Game 1 ===> 33/07/07 with 1 TO in 38 min on 12/26, 2/5, 07/10 and 1 ST and +26 and wins ============= 12.28.16 vs Greensboro Swarm
Game 2 ===> 27/07/05 with 7 TO in 44 min on 10/24, 1/4, 06/06 and 1 ST and -07 and loss (in overtime) ===== 01.14.17 at LA D-Fenders


Felder faded down the stretch of the game tonight (missed his last 6 shots) and seemed a bit tired late and in overtime. Too many TO's and he should look to keep the TH% up.

Still, he led the team in scoring and he is doing what he's doing in the D-League with no practice time with the team.

Canton lost tonight to the LA D-Fenders in Los Angeles. LA has the best record in the D-League (19-5 after tonight's win).

Vander Blue led LA with 40 points.
 
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Had a chance to win it, horrible looking tear drop.
 
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