Cavs vs. Warriors -- 2017 NBA Finals

[TyGuy]

@BigJ West is a better defender than speights. You can't just toss these numbers out there in low minutes without any context and say "see!!!!!" Obviously the numbers didn't favor barbosa or you would have posted something there. Barbosa has never really been any good. His defense is really bad so he is only any help when he is scoring efficiently; which is hit and miss with him. Clark is giving them better minutes point blank.

Your comment about Livingston forgetting how to pass is laughable. Bottomline is they still kept their two best bench players. You neglected to mention that Livingston's efficiency is way up. How can we take you seriously when you aren't being partial...like at all. You exaggerate all the bad things and just gloss over their positives.

Ezeli only played like half the season last year anyway and you made it seem like he was this HUGE loss. They were doing fine without him and it was a mistake for Kerr to lean on him in game 7.

Zaza isn't as good as bogut but he's far from this bum you're making him out to be. They got him dirt cheap and he's been more than serviceable.

I think we took a step back in the depth department because we got cheap and just let two assets go. I understand letting Moz go, but it would have been nice to work a sign and trade to get anything at all with just one of them at least. Holding on to delly as an asset alone would have been nice, but we all hate having to rely on shump as a backup point guard.

 

[Zog]

Both the Cavs and Warriors are better teams than last year. Losing Dellavedova and Mozgov hurts in the regular season, but not so much in in the playoffs.

Cavs will have to play better in the first 4 games of the Finals this year if they are playing the Warriors. I don't see a 3-1 come back happening again.

Durant makes them a lot harder to defend, you can't sag off of him like Barnes. The key will be to keep the game close in the first 3 quarters and then hope KD goes into hero-ball mode in the 4th quarters. This goes for any team, not just the Cavs.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

They lost a little depth, but it doesn't matter. No one needs as much depth as they'd had anyway. They still have guys off the bench that can play, and that's all you really need.

So, while they sacrificed a little more depth/wins, we are foolish though to think they're not better than last year. They are miles better.

The only real lost was Bogut, but was it? They're ranked number 1 in defensive efficiency. We all thought they'd struggle defensively, they haven't. They've become not only a potent offensive team, but an elite defensive team.

Anything that we were rooting to go wrong with GS, hasn't.

I think what's even a little more troubling, given it is just two games. They seem to be able to defend us better than we've shown to defend them.

Of course some of the poor shooting by us was anomaly, I get that. Some of the concerns though I have is they seem to do an even better job at contesting passing lanes and forcing everything to be isolation. Both games we had a ton of turnovers, and that wasn't an accident IMO. They're long on the perimeter, and they have players that are very active in the passing lanes.

They match up much better against us defensively than I thought, and that to me is a little bit surprising.

GS matches up much better now against us than they did last year.

As good as Bogut was, he was virtually useless against us IMO. Not a difference maker, really. Except of the rim protection he added, but I think it matter that much.

I don't think was the difference between them losing it all last year.

Complete unfiltered nonsense

Bogut going down last year was what swung the series into our court

It's like you guys don't remember the entire last regular season AT ALL

they shut our water off in the regular season twice last year. They blew out the Spurs. They throttled playoff contenders. They made it look like they were light years ahead. Then they went 15-9 in the playoffs

B-but m-muh Durant

Give it a fucking rest. This is the same God damned thing that happened last year right down to everyone pronouncing us massive underdogs. The same exact thing. Bogut PER MINUTE might have been the most impactful Warrior in the finals

 

[TyGuy]

They lost a little depth, but it doesn't matter. No one needs as much depth as they'd had anyway. They still have guys off the bench that can play, and that's all you really need.

So, while they sacrificed a little more depth/wins, we are foolish though to think they're not better than last year. They are miles better.

The only real lost was Bogut, but was it? They're ranked number 1 in defensive efficiency. We all thought they'd struggle defensively, they haven't. They've become not only a potent offensive team, but an elite defensive team.

Anything that we were rooting to go wrong with GS, hasn't.

I think what's even a little more troubling, given it is just two games. They seem to be able to defend us better than we've shown to defend them.

Of course some of the poor shooting by us was anomaly, I get that. Some of the concerns though I have is they seem to do an even better job at contesting passing lanes and forcing everything to be isolation. Both games we had a ton of turnovers, and that wasn't an accident IMO. They're long on the perimeter, and they have players that are very active in the passing lanes.

They match up much better against us defensively than I thought, and that to me is a little bit surprising.

GS matches up much better now against us than they did last year.

As good as Bogut was, he was virtually useless against us IMO. Not a difference maker, really. Except of the rim protection he added, but I think it matter that much.

I don't think was the difference between them losing it all last year.

Right now they are #1 on ORTG and #1 in DRTG. This has only happened once (96 bulls 72 wins). Their offense right now is #1 all time ahead of the 86 lakers and their SRS of +12.49 is #1 all time ahead of the 96 bulls. Yes, they are much better than he past two warriors teams. Everybody knew they would be frighteningly good. Which is why everybody is angry with Durant being such a dishonorable bitch.

Everybody should be really mad at ESPN because they were the ones that made this shit show possible with their bidding war against themselves.

 

[godfather]

@The Wizard of Moz do you really not think GS is better than last year?

I mean come on, I get you don't like Durant. But he's fucking miles and miles better than Harrison Barnes.

I think it's hard to claim that we've gone backward.

Love has been on a different level this year, Shumpert is healthy, and we've added Kyle Korver. Even Liggins has shown to be a difference making defender with a spot role. Everyone we lost would not have seen valuable minutes against the Warriors.

So many people whine about losing Dellevadova. He's held on some kind of pedestal as if he's an actual difference maker. Perhaps in the regular season from a minutes standpoint, but not in the postseason. He was maximized last year on our team. That may have been his career year. In truth, he's a fringe NBA hustle player making $10 million/year in Milwaukee. Look at the season he's having. If they could do it over again, I'd bet they'd stay away.


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We are a worse defensive team than last year. That's a fact. How did we win it all? Defense. To @TyGuy point, we've lost depth, and it has hurt us though.

Offensively we're better, sure. We got a healthy Kyrie and Kevin Love to finally fit in.

Defensively we are just an average team. We need to be better than average if we want to win a title.

 

[godfather]

Right now they are #1 on ORTG and #1 in DRTG. This has only happened once (96 bulls 72 wins). Their offense right now is #1 all time ahead of the 86 lakers and their SRS of +12.49 is #1 all time ahead of the 96 bulls. Yes, they are much better than he past two warriors teams. Everybody knew they would be frighteningly good. Which is why everybody is angry with Durant being such a dishonorable bitch.

Everybody should be really mad at ESPN because they were the ones that made this shit show possible with their bidding war against themselves.

You'd have to be flat out in denial to think they're not better. Agree, they are a different animal than last year. Completely.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Right now they are #1 on ORTG and #1 in DRTG. This has only happened once (96 bulls 72 wins). Their offense right now is #1 all time ahead of the 86 lakers and their SRS of +12.49 is #1 all time ahead of the 96 bulls. Yes, they are much better than he past two warriors teams. Everybody knew they would be frighteningly good. Which is why everybody is angry with Durant being such a dishonorable bitch.

Everybody should be really mad at ESPN because they were the ones that made this shit show possible with their bidding war against themselves.

Last year they were #1 in offensive rating and #3 in defensive rating

The Spurs last year had the best SRS of all time... then lost in round 2.

I mean good God guys. Let's just hand them the trophy and go home. They rank #1 in everything!!!

 

[BigJ]

@BigJ West is a better defender than speights. You can't just toss these numbers out there in low minutes without any context and say see!!!!! Obviously the numbers didn't favor barbosa or you would have posted something there. Barbosa has never really been any good. His defense is really bad so he is only any help when he is scoring efficiently; which is hit and miss with him. Clark is giving them better minutes point blank.

Your comment about Livingston forgetting how to pass is laughable. Bottomline is they still kept their two best bench players. You neglected to mention that Livingston's efficiency is way up. How can we take you seriously when you aren't being partial...like at all. You exaggerate all the bad things and just gloss over their positives.

Ezeli only played like half the season last year anyway and you made it seem like he was this HUGE loss. They were doing fine without him and it was a mistake for Kerr to lean on him in game 7.

Zaza isn't as good as bogut but he's far from this bum you're making him out to be. They got him dirt cheap and he's been more than serviceable.

I think we took a step back in the depth department because we got cheap and just let two assets go. I understand letting Moz go, but it would have been nice to work a sign and trade to get anything at all with just one of them at least. Holding on to delly as an asset alone would have been nice, but we all hate having to rely on shump as a backup point guard.

Oh c'mon really? You accuse me of beeing impartial while ignoring nearly any context i gave?

What i was trying to say with Speights stats was that he actually was an offensive Threat.
He always could come in and score 10 Quick Points. West might be better at defense and Passing.. yet he is old.. was useless last Playoffs and that he is the best of their Bench Bigs is NOT a good thing for them..

Barbosa never any good? How is a guy who averages around 7 Points in 15 Minutes for them on 47% FG and 37% Threes "never any good" You totally ignore my Point about Barbosa.. he was very good at creating Offense himself. Clark is a spot Shooter.. a good one still you cant expect him to score 20 on his own when the Starters fail(Games 1 and 2 Finals.. remember?) Also Clark is not that much better at defense.. -1.5 DPM are better than Barbosas -2.1 but -1.5 isnt getting "good" from that.

Why is my comment laughable? Damn man you get at me for my Arguments without explaining.. way to go... How can i take YOU Seriously? Livingstons assists droped almost in half.. how is my comment wrong? Also is effeciency is up? yeah great.. What does that matter with a guy who has a good Scoring night if he passes 5 Points..?

Also a quick question: Isnt this a Cavs board? do i really have to justify myself for not going over any good thing with a Team most here hate with a passion?


With Ezili i said "when healthy".. did you even read my Post closely?

Zaza is comically bad at what Bogut was great at exept Rebounding.. He cant defend the Rim to safe his life and help defense seems to be a word he doesnt know.. again.. i said that he is nowhere near the Rim Protector,Passer or screen setter.. i never said he was a bum.. i only said he is much worse at most of the things Bogut added big time value to their Team..

How can anybody use the word "cheap" in relation to the Team with the highest Payroll in NBA History?
Delly just has lost his starting Job to a Rookie who plays out of Position.. yep Brogdon is a SG that is better at PG than Delly right now.. You can turn it anyway you want but Delly is not worth 10m...
I actually do agree though that it would have been nice to at least get something for Moz and Delly!

 

[BigJ]

I mean good God guys. Let's just hand them the trophy and go home. They rank #1 in everything!!!

Yep...The Fear of the Warriors is getting sickening... Is this a Cavs board or what?

We are the defending champs
We have the soon to be GOAT
We have Mr. Clutch
We have Minnesota Love
We have 100% More Heart and Resillience than GSW.

isn't that enough?

I think many here are making the mistake Lebron is always warning everybody about...
dont get ahead of ourselves.. dont worry about other Teams.. we need to get to the best we can get..

If we are healthy and clicking we will beat them.

 

[TyGuy]

Since you can't seem to have a disagreement without sounding like a petulant child i'm going to have to put you on #teamignore Bigj.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Yep...The Fear of the Warriors is getting sickening... Is this a Cavs board or what?

We are the defending champs
We have the soon to be GOAT
We have Mr. Clutch
We have Minnesota Love
We have 100% More Heart and Resillience than GSW.

isn't that enough?

I think many here are making the mistake Lebron is always warning everybody about...
dont get ahead of ourselves.. dont worry about other Teams.. we need to get to the best we can get..

If we are healthy and clicking we will beat them.

The thing is I know they are a different team but these same exact conversations happened last year where they were decreed unbeatable and it was considered a lost year because hey they lead the league in everything, they look unbeatable, they are blowing out contenders.

I'm unwatching this and the Warriors thread for a while. It's just getting too unbearable to read the constant gushing over the Warriors. Keep fighting the good fight bigJ

 

[godfather]

Last year they were #1 in offensive rating and #3 in defensive rating

The Spurs last year had the best SRS of all time... then lost in round 2.

I mean good God guys. Let's just hand them the trophy and go home. They rank #1 in everything!!!

Who is talking about handing them anything? I don't really understand what is so outrageous in saying they are a better team than last year.

And I don't think anyone is saying we can't, at all, still beat them. But we definitely need to play better than we have.

But, it's still a long season. And there's no secret we're not going to peak at this point.

I don't think it's fair to compare to last season. Both teams are different. We can't seriously act as if GS isn't capable of beating us though.

It's not like we swept them last year. And they clearly got a better player.

I hate them more than anything. Durant is a total bitch for what he did. But there's not so much backlash and anger over it if we don't feel they did benefit from getting him.

 

[godfather]

@BigJ West is a better defender than speights. You can't just toss these numbers out there in low minutes without any context and say "see!!!!!" Obviously the numbers didn't favor barbosa or you would have posted something there. Barbosa has never really been any good. His defense is really bad so he is only any help when he is scoring efficiently; which is hit and miss with him. Clark is giving them better minutes point blank.

Your comment about Livingston forgetting how to pass is laughable. Bottomline is they still kept their two best bench players. You neglected to mention that Livingston's efficiency is way up. How can we take you seriously when you aren't being partial...like at all. You exaggerate all the bad things and just gloss over their positives.

Ezeli only played like half the season last year anyway and you made it seem like he was this HUGE loss. They were doing fine without him and it was a mistake for Kerr to lean on him in game 7.

Zaza isn't as good as bogut but he's far from this bum you're making him out to be. They got him dirt cheap and he's been more than serviceable.

I think we took a step back in the depth department because we got cheap and just let two assets go. I understand letting Moz go, but it would have been nice to work a sign and trade to get anything at all with just one of them at least. Holding on to delly as an asset alone would have been nice, but we all hate having to rely on shump as a backup point guard.

What's the most frustrating is he's never been known as a defender, but he's defending at a pretty damn high level on that team.

That to me probably frustrates/angers me the most. Didn't expect that.

I think Kerr does struggle as an X and O coach at times, and making proper adjustments in a series, but there's no denying he's pretty remarkable at getting his guys to excel in his system on both ends of the floor.

 

[joyner89]

Some of you guys really don't have a clue what you're talking about.

This years Warriors is already considerably better than last years team. They're on pace to become the best offense in league history, crushing the records for ORTG, TS%, eFG%, and might surpass the Showtimes Lakers for the assists records.

Defensively, they're also the best defense in the league and have both the best perimeter and rim protection defense in the NBA. Whatever they lost in Bogut has been more than made up by with the addition of Durant, who is currently ranked as the 8th best rim protector in the NBA. They lead the NBA in blocks, steals, contests, deflections, opponent eFG%, opponent 3P%, opponent TS%, and DRTG.

The 2016 Warriors overachieved by a considerable margin, which was made evident by their MOV, SRS, ELO, and other analytics. According to pythagorean, they should have won 65 games, instead they ended up with 73 due to winning every regular season game that was close in crunch time. Last years team was considerably worse than all of the great teams through history when viewed in analytics.

This years team is an entirely different story. They're on record to obliterate the 96 Bulls records in SRS, MOV, Net Rating, etc. Outside of W/L's, through 43 games they're the greatest team in NBA history by every objective measure.

Are they beatable? Who knows. But one thing is for certain, this is a much better team than last years team even when it had a healthy Bogut.

 

[joyner89]

Also this Durant chokes when it matters is one of the worst narratives in quite some time.

In elimination games, here are his averages 32.3 ppg 9.5 reb and 3.7 apg on 62.0 TS% in elimination games

Here are his career numbers in game 6's and 7's
Game 7 vs Memphis 2011 W 39/9/2 67.3 TS%
Game 6 vs San Antonio 2012 W 34/14/5 72.0 TS%
Game 6 vs Houston 2013 W 27/8/6 54.3 TS%
Game 6 vs Memphis 2014 W 36/10/2 60.8 TS%
Game 7 vs Memphis 2014 W 33/8/2 79.9 TS%
Game 6 vs LA Clippers 2014 W 39/16/5 71.2 TS%
Game 6 vs San Antonio 2014 L 31/14/2 55.2 TS%
Game 6 vs San Antonio 2016 W 37/9/2 63.2 TS%
Game 6 vs Golden State 2016 L 29/7/3 41.0 TS%
Game 7 vs Golden State 2016 L 27/7/3 60.5 TS%

He's had 1 bad game in his entire career in playoff do or die situations.