Cavs vs. Warriors -- 2017 NBA Finals

[Benedict_Boozer]

Yup. We were underdogs at the Q (+2) on Christmas even though it was the end of a road trip for GS. Last year, the oddsmakers gave the Warriors a better chance of sweeping the scabs than the Cavs winning the series or even taking it to seven games.

They're going to wind up with the highest SRS, margin of victory, NET rating, etc., etc. ever. Objectively speaking, it's the best team ever assembled and it takes real effort just to simply not be blown out by them. Watching some of their games, it's honestly disheartening to see that they're trying at like 50% in most games and still blowing teams out like it's nothing.

It will be really, really, really difficult to pull off another series win. Last year, James played 2 of the 3 or 4 greatest games in Finals history and overall played like a +15 or +16 player, i.e., equivalent to the greatest player ever playing at his absolute peak and then some. Kyrie played his best 3 games to finish the series. Now they have a matchup nightmare in Durant whom we can't stick LeBron and expect LeBron to do his usual things.

Makes me appreciate what this team did last year as it went against every projection by any system of analytics. To do it twice back-to-back? I don't know, man.

Yup. Part of winning a title is also luck, the year Kev and Kyrie went down we were playing some historically great ball and that all but eliminated our title chances. With a top heavy team like GS all it takes is one guy out or weakened due to injury to balance the playing field, it happened to us in '15 it could happen to them. Hell even in last year's finals we lost Kev to a concussion.

Given how unbelievably healthy their team always seems to be and the fact all of their top 4 are in their peak primes, can't rely on that happening though.

 

[Thunder]

Does anyone feel like we need to sign an enforcer type with Birdman out? In their last two games, we saw Green lay LeBron out and Zaza lay Westbrook out and stand over him. They may be a bunch of fake tough assholes but they're doling out the hits and don't seem to be getting any in return. I was hoping Birdman would be that guy we put in for a few min a la Dahntay Jones in the ECF's and give someone a tough hit....I think we need a Perkins/Birdman type for these situations.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Does anyone feel like we need to sign an enforcer type with Birdman out? In their last two games, we saw Green lay LeBron out and Zaza lay Westbrook out and stand over him. They may be a bunch of fake tough assholes but they're doling out the hits and don't seem to be getting any in return. I was hoping Birdman would be that guy we put in for a few min a la Dahntay Jones in the ECF's and give someone a tough hit....I think we need a Perkins/Birdman type for these situations.

If we're not going to sign a defensive wing a la PJ Tucker I wouldn't mind seeing Jones back. You could tell that Draymond and co. wanted no part of him.

Plus I just love that dude's story...plucked from the D-League on the last day only to have his moment in the Finals and collect a ring. Epic.

 

[Thunder]

If we're not going to sign a defensive wing a la PJ Tucker I wouldn't mind seeing Jones back. You could tell that Draymond and co. wanted no part of him.

Plus I just love that dude's story...plucked from the D-League on the last day only to have his moment in the Finals and collect a ring. Epic.

Someone just needs to lay out that pu**y Durant...you do that to him once in the playoffs hard on a drive, I guarantee he'll think twice before taking it to the hoop again. He will shy away.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Someone just needs to lay out that pu**y Durant...you do that to him once in the playoffs hard on a drive, I guarantee he'll think twice before taking it to the hoop again. He will shy away.

LeBron and the Cavs are all about "playing the game the right way" but fuck that, things changed when that pusillanimous twat joined the Warriors and now Darwin reigns supreme. I'd be seeing red if I was the Cavs. "Oh, you thought winning a ring was going to be that easy? Choke back your blood and let's see if you can do it, pussies."

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

I can't be the only one who misses Perkins

 

[LeShaq]

I came into this season just hoping LeBron would win MVP. I was not counting on a Finals win after Coward went to Golden State.

Durant changes things both in transition offense and transition defense. This is extremely significant for us in our match up with them. We turned the tide in the Finals last year by out-running the runners and beating them at their own game, with pace.

Durant makes that much harder to accomplish again.

If we win this year, it's house money for me. What I'm looking forward to, instead, is the new CBA hitting the Warriors hard this summer. And then let's see if they can still keep the band together. Because I think we'll only be better next year, though LeBron will be a year older.

I don't like "lost years." But Coward's choice made things much more difficult for us. I'm certainly not giving up on this year, at all, but I'm not going to be torn apart if we don't win The Finals.

LeBron is right, though -- this isn't a rivalry. Yet. Because it's not the same team we're facing. We proved we were better than the pre-Durant Warriors when both teams played all their players (or the most significant players). But this is a new rivalry now, one that's just starting, that includes Durant. So I agree with LeBron about that.

The Warriors and their sycophants and bandwagon fans are unbelievably annoying. A telling thing, however, was the Draymond foul on LeBron. In the past, the Warriors loved to try to out-gun you and out-run you and demoralize you. After the dunk-down that LeBron gave the Warriors on Christmas, Draymond basically conceded, with that foul, that the Warriors can't hang in a dunk-fest against LeBron. So I'll take that. And that's why Draymond had to stop the break, so LeBron couldn't wreck their psyches again.

LeBron is still the center of gravity of the NBA. The Warriors are foils for LeBron; that's their chief function and why they're so popular. In addition to the "play the right way" thing that pretty much got tossed out the window during the postseason last year with the preening and groin kicks. Mostly people like the Warriors now because they're bandwagoning on a presumed winner, and because they want someone to beat LeBron.

This last game meant little. The Warriors had to win it. We've owned them recently. We played badly, they played great, and the media finally gets to write the narrative they've been waiting to write for months.

Meh. It doesn't mean anything. We still are capable of beating them in a series, even this year. And I feel even better about how things might shape up after this year.

The Warriors are divas and attention whores. There is a childishness and New Money sense to them. Like they don't know how to act because they've never been there before. It's grating, but the truth is that they will always be associated with the biggest failed season in the sport, and maybe the biggest failed season in all of sport. So, they're always just one step away from being clowned and put in their place.

 

[TitleTown]

I came into this season just hoping LeBron would win MVP. I was not counting on a Finals win after Coward went to Golden State.

Durant changes things both in transition offense and transition defense. This is extremely significant for us in our match up with them. We turned the tide in the Finals last year by out-running the runners and beating them at their own game, with pace.

Durant makes that much harder to accomplish again.

If we win this year, it's house money for me. What I'm looking forward to, instead, is the new CBA hitting the Warriors hard this summer. And then let's see if they can still keep the band together. Because I think we'll only be better next year, though LeBron will be a year older.

I don't like "lost years." But Coward's choice made things much more difficult for us. I'm certainly not giving up on this year, at all, but I'm not going to be torn apart if we don't win The Finals.

LeBron is right, though -- this isn't a rivalry. Yet. Because it's not the same team we're facing. We proved we were better than the pre-Durant Warriors when both teams played all their players (or the most significant players). But this is a new rivalry now, one that's just starting, that includes Durant. So I agree with LeBron about that.

The Warriors and their sycophants and bandwagon fans are unbelievably annoying. A telling thing, however, was the Draymond foul on LeBron. In the past, the Warriors loved to try to out-gun you and out-run you and demoralize you. After the dunk-down that LeBron gave the Warriors on Christmas, Draymond basically conceded, with that foul, that the Warriors can't hang in a dunk-fest against LeBron. So I'll take that. And that's why Draymond had to stop the break, so LeBron couldn't wreck their psyches again.

LeBron is still the center of gravity of the NBA. The Warriors are foils for LeBron; that's their chief function and why they're so popular. In addition to the "play the right way" thing that pretty much got tossed out the window during the postseason last year with the preening and groin kicks. Mostly people like the Warriors now because they're bandwagoning on a presumed winner, and because they want someone to beat LeBron.

This last game meant little. The Warriors had to win it. We've owned them recently. We played badly, they played great, and the media finally gets to write the narrative they've been waiting to write for months.

Meh. It doesn't mean anything. We still are capable of beating them in a series, even this year. And I feel even better about how things might shape up after this year.

The Warriors are divas and attention whores. There is a childishness and New Money sense to them. Like they don't know how to act because they've never been there before. It's grating, but the truth is that they will always be associated with the biggest failed season in the sport, and maybe the biggest failed season in all of sport. So, they're always just one step away from being clowned and put in their place.

Do you remember what everyone said last year?

"We have no chance against this 73 win team"

"This is a lost year."

It was wrong last year. And it's wrong this year too.

This is our year. We will repeat. We are MUCH better than last year.

Be pateint. Wait and see. By the time the playoffs get here, we will look like the best team in the league.

 

[Cavatt]

Last year I thought they were peaking in during the season, and it appears they did. We can hope for the same thing this year.

I don't think the Cavs team has reached it's peak. i am worried about the defense again. Watching them against the Suns yesterday, I saw a lot not to like. It was no surprise to me they got blown out because the Cavs are playing the worst they have all year right now IMO. There is plenty of time to improve.

 

[BigJ]

Let GSW play great now... let them peak in January.. just as last year.. They are playing the best they can now.. its propably not sustainable in the Playoffs.. again.. KD wont work as a Rim Protector in the Playoffs when he has to go against Gasol(Marc or Pau),LA,Randolph,Griffin etc every Game.. Zaza,Javale,West will be unplayable against the best Teams.

We are the Team that has the Potential to be so much better come June..

Getting Korver acclimated, getting JR back.. getting Lebron into Playoff Mode.. our defense jumping from "Mediocre" to elite(like it has the last two years.. our Playoff defense is taxing.. it is not Playable for 82 games..).. Getting a decent PG(or Playmaking wing)..

 

[BigJ]

Do you remember what everyone said last year?

"We have no chance against this 73 win team"

"This is a lost year."

It was wrong last year. And it's wrong this year too.

This is our year. We will repeat. We are MUCH better than last year.

Be pateint. Wait and see. By the time the playoffs get here, we will look like the best team in the league.

I think people either have actually forgotten... or are so struck in fear... "But... But they added KD..."

Yeah they did..they also lost Bogut(their Rim Protector and a great Passer) Barnes(who was much better at guarding PFs),Barbosa(the only guy on that Bench who could generate his own offense),Ezili(when healthy was a great backup C)

We added Minnesota Kevin Love, Shumpert 2.0(Shooting 40% from 3),Lebrons Jumpshot,Korver,Liggins

I do seriously think overall we are more improved than they are.. Basketball is still a Team sport.

When healthy WE are the depper Team.. much deeper.

Need to take Curry or Klay out of the Game?.. throw Liggins at them
Need 10+ extra Points from threes? Kyle is your guy
Need 10+ extra Points from threes from your Center? Channing is your Man
Need a solid 3&D Guy who can hit the Open three and defend one of Klay,Steph.. Shump is in
Need a timely three that shocks everybody?... Champ is here..
Need an agressive Spark Plug who can at the very least give energy? Kay is in.

Now if we can add a decent backup Veteran PG or a decent Playmaking Wing... this gets even better

What does their Bench consist of?

Three Bigs you cant really play when it matters(two old and one with no Basketball brain..)
Iggy who is nearly useless now
Livingston ..never much of a threat.. has forgotten how to pass(1.7 apg.. lol..)
Clark.. good shooter.. nothing else
And a bunch of not ready young guys(Jones,Looney,Mccaddo,Mccaw)

While GSW is peaking again too early.. we if healthy will be a much, much better Team in June..

 

[TyGuy]

They didn't lose any depth. David West is just as good if not better than Speights, ian clark is giving them better minutes than barbosa, and they kept their two best bench players. Their only real loss was bogut, but KD more than makes up for that loss and they also got zaza for cheap which helps that blow. We are the ones that lost depth and lack depth. Which is really frustrating when you see your rival arm up and we go backwards.

 

[BigJ]

They didn't lose any depth. David West is just as good if not better than Speights, ian clark is giving them better minutes than barbosa, and they kept their two best bench players. Their only real loss was bogut, but KD more than makes up for that loss and they also got zaza for cheap which helps that blow. We are the ones that lost depth and lack depth. Which is really frustrating when you see your rival arm up and we go backwards.

Are you Serious? I hope not..

West is at 4ppg and 2.7 rpg in 11 Minutes... Speights was a 7.1 and 3.3 also in 11 Minutes..
And while Clark is a nice Shooter Barbosa could still generate his offense wich Clark simply cant..
Livingston and Iggy regressed big time.. Iggy is neither nearly as good on offense or defense and Livingston has forgotten how to pass(down to 1,7 apg compared to 3 last year)
They also lost Ezili who when healthy was a very good backup Center.
And dont get me started on Zaza vs Bogut... Bogut was 10x the Rim Protector,Passer and Screen setter Zaza can even dream of beeing..

Also please tell me where we lost depth?

Mozgov and Delly who didnt play once Lue became the Coach?
Who are we missing exept for a healthy JR?
We all know we will get a Playmaker/PG..

Liggins is a legit Rotation Player
We just added Korver
RJ is back and with some rest is still the same Player as last year
Frye is back
Shump shoots 40% from three
Added Kay.. who might turn out to be usefull( he actually has been pretty good when given the chance)

What exactly is your issue with our depth?

Both a cheap backup PG and a cheap Center can be added rather easilly..

 

[dark2332]

They didn't lose any depth. David West is just as good if not better than Speights, ian clark is giving them better minutes than barbosa, and they kept their two best bench players. Their only real loss was bogut, but KD more than makes up for that loss and they also got zaza for cheap which helps that blow. We are the ones that lost depth and lack depth. Which is really frustrating when you see your rival arm up and we go backwards.

I think it's hard to claim that we've gone backward.

Love has been on a different level this year, Shumpert is healthy, and we've added Kyle Korver. Even Liggins has shown to be a difference making defender with a spot role. Everyone we lost would not have seen valuable minutes against the Warriors.

So many people whine about losing Dellevadova. He's held on some kind of pedestal as if he's an actual difference maker. Perhaps in the regular season from a minutes standpoint, but not in the postseason. He was maximized last year on our team. That may have been his career year. In truth, he's a fringe NBA hustle player making $10 million/year in Milwaukee. Look at the season he's having. If they could do it over again, I'd bet they'd stay away.


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[godfather]

They didn't lose any depth. David West is just as good if not better than Speights, ian clark is giving them better minutes than barbosa, and they kept their two best bench players. Their only real loss was bogut, but KD more than makes up for that loss and they also got zaza for cheap which helps that blow. We are the ones that lost depth and lack depth. Which is really frustrating when you see your rival arm up and we go backwards.

They lost a little depth, but it doesn't matter. No one needs as much depth as they'd had anyway. They still have guys off the bench that can play, and that's all you really need.

So, while they sacrificed a little more depth/wins, we are foolish though to think they're not better than last year. They are miles better.

The only real lost was Bogut, but was it? They're ranked number 1 in defensive efficiency. We all thought they'd struggle defensively, they haven't. They've become not only a potent offensive team, but an elite defensive team.

Anything that we were rooting to go wrong with GS, hasn't.

I think what's even a little more troubling, given it is just two games. They seem to be able to defend us better than we've shown to defend them.

Of course some of the poor shooting by us was anomaly, I get that. Some of the concerns though I have is they seem to do an even better job at contesting passing lanes and forcing everything to be isolation. Both games we had a ton of turnovers, and that wasn't an accident IMO. They're long on the perimeter, and they have players that are very active in the passing lanes.

They match up much better against us defensively than I thought, and that to me is a little bit surprising.

GS matches up much better now against us than they did last year.

As good as Bogut was, he was virtually useless against us IMO. Not a difference maker, really. Except of the rim protection he added, but I don't think it mattered that much.

I don't think was the difference between them losing it all last year.