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Farewell Kyle Korver

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Grade the Trade (Korver for Dunleavy, Williams, 2019 1st)

  • A+

    Votes: 91 41.2%
  • A

    Votes: 98 44.3%
  • B

    Votes: 30 13.6%
  • C

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • D

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • F

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    221
  • Poll closed .
One thing I would note is he has played a lot of his minutes (over 33%) with an all-bench lineup featuring none of Kyrie, LeBron, or Love. That puts him in a position that is arguably bound to be unsuccessful, especially when it comes to +/- and/or net rating stats.

I would say give it a month or so before we fully judge the Korver deal. He has a very unique game and the Cavs have a very unique offense. This adjustment will take time. I'm with you, though, I think it'll work out very well in the end.

Yeah, I really don't like Lue's rotations and it's his job to put him in a position to succeed. Also, Kyrie is obviously hurt and his burst is affected, so it limits the open looks he is able to get. Anyhow, he is really really enjoyable to watch so even at his worst state he still adds pleasure. He just needs to be better.
 
Yeah, I really don't like Lue's rotations and it's his job to put him in a position to succeed. Also, Kyrie is obviously hurt and his burst is affected, so it limits the open looks he is able to get. Anyhow, he is really really enjoyable to watch so even at his worst state he still adds pleasure. He just needs to be better.
I just think you need to be patient.

Lue's rotations are the way they are because of experimentation and injuries.
 
I just think you need to be patient.

Lue's rotations are the way they are because of experimentation and injuries.

I'm patient. Don't blame injuries for his rotations and "experimentation". Sometimes his lineups on the floor are mind boggling to me.
 
I'm patient. Don't blame injuries for his rotations and "experimentation". Sometimes his lineups on the floor are mind boggling to me.

:chuckle:

What do you expect to happen from an incomplete team with no back-up PG, missing its starting SG, and trying to jam in a recently acquired player to get him in the flow?

Patient...haha...that's a good one.
 
I'm patient. Don't blame injuries for his rotations and "experimentation". Sometimes his lineups on the floor are mind boggling to me.
You're patient, but you're not ok with experimentation?

Do you realize that experimenting includes testing possibly bad lineups just to be sure they won't work...right?

You don't know more than Lue. You never will.
 
Kyle seems to be going through something very similar to what Channing did. These guys have spent their whole career having to shoot under immense defensive pressure. They played on teams that didn’t have stars and mainly were expected to create and operate in ways that are totally different from what their new reality is.

Korver spent his entire career getting used to having guys draped all over him. Relentlessly chasing him, trying to (at all costs) keep him from getting the ball. For years he has used an internal clock that operates in milliseconds. Catch and get the shot up in a split second. His mind is going to take time to adjust to having teammates with such immense gravity.

Where that really shows up is when teams just lose sight of him. Remember when Frye went through this as well? It’s almost as if these guys don’t know how to deal with getting shots without working for them. How many times in Atlanta did Korver do something as innocent as just drift to the weak side and that led to him getting a wide open 3? Where there isn’t a guy within 6 feet of him?

Korver will start to slowly adjust, much like Channing did. His mechanics will start to slow, he’ll be able to feel out when he has to rush to get a split second shot off (and when he does not) and he’ll start to settle in and just snipe. That may not happen overnight but eventually, the game will slow down in a way for Korver that he likely did not believe was possible.
 
No. Love is an All-NBA player. Kyle Korver is a role player. Trying to compare them is wrong.

Again, I don't give a shit about these regular season games. I've made that stance clear in various threads.

If you think we're winning anything running 10+ plays a game in The Finals for Korver you're kidding yourself. This isn't perennial All-Star Ray Allen, or Kevin Love. This is a role player. A 35 year old one at that. You don't waste so many possessions revolving your offense around a role player unless you want to lose. Period.

Korver getting 10 shots a game in the finals is definitely not a BAD thing at all.

In-fact, I would hope that Korver is involved in many many many more than just "10" actions throughout the course of a 25 minute performance. We would be doing a disservice to ourselves otherwise.

I'm not saying I want every Korver action to result in Korver taking a three.

The big thing that our players will have to learn to take advantage of is the free space and scoring opportunities that are created for EVERYONE ELSE as a RESULT of the action involving Korver.

Theoretical lineup: Kyrie, JR, Korver, Bron, TT

**DISCLAIMER: This play sounds like it takes 90 seconds to run because I'm being too descriptive, but every time I've seen it ran by the Cavs with somebody besides Korver or by the Hawks when they had Korver, the first pass is usually made around the 7-10 second mark which gives plenty of time for the ending and a shot. This play also works with LeBron posting up at either elbow but requires a little bit of a different 2nd action but I wont get into that now.

Eventually it will be realized by say, LeBron, that everyone they run Korver off of a back-screen/pin-down on the left hand side of the court, there will come a point where Korver will flare out to the 3 point line on the left wing, instinct would usually tell you to get Korver the ball as soon as he flares out. That's what we've seen the most so far, even. But anyways, that can be a good play and a good shot, SOMETIMES, because sometimes Korver will be extremely open. But a lot of the time, just that one simple action won't get him what I'll call "optimal" space.

Anyways, so instead of hitting Korver with the pass every single time, LeBron will slowly learn to work the full set for what it is worth. After Korver flares out, if he has a guy right on him or even somebody close enough to where the three is no longer really an "open three", LeBron won't hit him with the pass. Instead, LeBron himself will get a screen probably by the big, so TT. As this p&R begins to develop, this where the pin-down portion of the play comes into effect. As LeBron works his screen on the right side, Korver is going to move to the elbow at an angle, his defender will follow. Tristan has already rolled into the paint by now because LeBron forced a switch, so now the other teams 5 is guarding LeBron on the right wing. Korver is moving towards the elbow, Thompson is in the paint. We have JR and Kyrie in each respective corner, Kyrie on the right side, JR on the left. And this is where the SECOND action occurs. Kyrie streaks from the right corner, baseline, under the hoop like he's switching corners, JR slides halfway to the middle from the left corner, still beyond the arc.

As Kyrie is coming baseline, Korver from the elbow, is going to fake like he's going to where Kyrie just came from, but then he's going to flare out to the left corner where J.R. just was. At this moment, if it works as planned, Thompson will have a screen set that effective PINS the guy guarding Korver DOWN, meaning towards the baseline, which forces Korver's man on to Kyrie and therefore Kyrie's man onto Korver. If Kyrie timed it right and the screen was good, Kyrie would have been heading towards where J.R. was standing, and JR slides DEAD CENTER behind the 3 point line. Korver is headed to the corner with a nice step or two on his new defender. LeBron knows its time to GO. He starts a dribble drive, probably gets forced baseline(because if not it's an automatic lay-up thanks to this action, there's too much scrambling to re-attach to the guys beyond the arc).

Korver's gets to the corner and he's got clear steps ahead of the guy on him, Kyrie is also behind the arc on the left hand side. We're going to assume that they're going to try to contest instead of getting a wide open corner 3 for Korver. So Kyrie's defender will see this as he sees LeBron start driving. So they will then start rotation. Kyrie's defender will go to Korver, JR's guy will slide to Korver, and then Korver's guy's ultimate job will be to try and get to JR, who has now slid even further away to the right wing behind the arc where LeBron had started to drive.

Now depending on exactly what LeBron' sees going on, he's either going to rifle it to Korver in the corner(that's the way it's drawn up, at least), or bounce it back to J.R, Korver is the easier pass because of LeBron's direction though. Giving the D the benefit of the doubt, let's say that the rotations start, and when Korver gets the ball, Kyrie's guy is flying in for the contest. Korver flips it to Kyrie, and JR's man is flying in....but the beauty of the action is, Smith has slid so far to the right, as long as Kyrie makes that little touch pass to J.R, the guy covering Korver probably will not make it back to J.R. in time because he was running towards the corner, got pinned down, and had to locate his rotation assignment, stop momentum, turn around, and get almost all the way across the court. JR with a wide open shot, right around where Kyrie's "the Shot" was taken.


This was an action designed for Korver, made possible and optimized by Korver, and the likelihood of Korver actually taking the shot is probably down as the 4th of 5th option on the list. It's a design for Korver to basically get the hockey assist. But it also opens a huge driving lane for LeBron to go 1v1 with a switch, it leaves Tristan with the mismatch advantage in case there is a lob or a missed shot and possible rebound, it should get J.R a wide open shot whether it comes from LeBron behind the back bounce pass(JR would be REALLLLLY WIDE OPEN in this case) or a Korver-initiated "swing the ball around the three point line" hockey assist. Kyrie is more of a distraction in this play as well, but there's a possibility that the rotation fails early enough that he takes the shot instead of JR, oh and finally, there's always the chance that it really could just be Korver with a wide open three from the shortest spot on the floor to shoot a three.


This example really doesn't even mean anything specific. I am jsut trying to illustrate my point: when the entire team learns how to benefit from Korver's off-ball action, we will start to see HUGE dividends. Because Korver as a simple catch&shoot guy like J.R. or Shumpert is really really good, but adding the "Korver dimension" to our offensive sets is what can be special about this team with this acquisition.
 
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Count me as unimpressed so far. Works hard off the ball but doesn't defend well, rebound, etc. He's got to up his games against the better teams (can't be neutralized by just having a hard working guy run thru with him)
 
Count me as unimpressed so far. Works hard off the ball but doesn't defend well, rebound, etc. He's got to up his games against the better teams (can't be neutralized by just having a hard working guy run thru with him)
Hard to impress anybody when your coach has your minutes all over the place, and the fact of the matter is, the Cavs aren't doing a good job by any means setting Korver up.

I like to believe once JR comes back, this offense will find its groove with the shooters and them leaking to the open spots on the floor. Shumpert has been outstanding this season from deep, and if you add him in there with JR and Korver, you're looking deadly.

But, it's no surprise Korver isn't doing enough to impress. He is 35 years old, and he, again, isn't having his minutes used correctly.

Hopefully that can be adjusted as we move forward, but right now Lue needs to figure a lot of stuff out.

Sent from my Galaxy Edge. Don't forget that the Golden State Warriors blew a 3-1 lead in the NBA Finals.
 
Count me as unimpressed so far. Works hard off the ball but doesn't defend well, rebound, etc. He's got to up his games against the better teams (can't be neutralized by just having a hard working guy run thru with him)

I am not gonna hold it against him that LeBron threw the ball around like he was drunk. Korver had a good first half and I didn't see Korver himself become a problem on any end of the floor. He couldn't do anything about Jefferson getting abused by Kawhi once Bron picked up the fouls. He could do anything about Frye getting worked in the paint.

I think we need to really consider getting Frye in the game earlier, or just flat-out playing him less(situationally!)., and then getting Thompson in with that second unit with LBJ at the 4 to shore things up. Frye is letting that second unit BLEED, so unless we're bombarding threes, things get get rough.
 
If I'm not mistaken he played 14 minutes stright in the first half. STRIGHT :)

Lue seriously has no clue right now.
 
Look we need a healthy JR to win against GS w or w/o Korver. I don't see a role for Korver when/if JR comes back. Now you could have we used to replace what we got from RJ last year: a guy like Sefolasha. A guy who could guard 1-4 and just keep the defense honest while he allows the 4th quarter guys to rest. I just do not like this move at all. Hope I'm wrong
 

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