Farewell Kyle Korver

[TitleTown]

Look we need a healthy JR to win against GS w or w/o Korver. I don't see a role for Korver when/if JR comes back. Now you could have we used to replace what we got from RJ last year: a guy like Sefolasha. A guy who could guard 1-4 and just keep the defense honest while he allows the 4th quarter guys to rest. I just do not like this move at all. Hope I'm wrong

You don't see a role for one of the best 3pt shooters, who can run off screens, and has a lightening fast release?

...all because he hasn't looked great during the Cavs worst stretch of the season?

You can't be serious.

 

[Pioneer10]

You don't see a role for one of the best 3pt shooters, who can run off screens, and has a lightening fast release?

...all because he hasn't looked great during the Cavs worst stretch of the season?

You can't be serious.

Quite serious: all that matters for this team is beating GS. Guys like Frye, Delly (who Livingston just killed on offense), and I fear Korver just become unplayable. You need to be able to defend one on one, get back on defense, get up in transition, along with able to take exploit a mismatch when switched when we have the ball. Look at Game 7 at last 8 man rotation only (really only 7 man as Mo only saw 5 minutes) with RJ playing 25 minutes.

I don't see anybody on this roster including RJ himself who can give them those critical minutes against GS. Sure I think Korver will help against most teams but not against GS. This is Korver against GS over the last 3 years with ATL: 5 pts, 7 pts, 17 pts, 2 pts, 3 pts. One good game and the last 2 games with ATL against them he was 1-10 from the field against them.

We weren't lacking in shooting w/o Korver: we need a big to lessen our dependence on Frye, a backup PG, and most importantly someone who can fill that RJ role.

 

[TitleTown]

Quite serious: all that matters for this team is beating GS. Guys like Frye, Delly (who Livingston just killed on offense), and I fear Korver just become unplayable. You need to be able to defend one on one, get back on defense, get up in transition, along with able to take exploit a mismatch when switched when we have the ball. Look at Game 7 at last 8 man rotation only (really only 7 man as Mo only saw 5 minutes) with RJ playing 25 minutes.

I don't see anybody on this roster including RJ himself who can give them those critical minutes against GS. Sure I think Korver will help against most teams but not against GS. This is Korver against GS over the last 3 years with ATL: 5 pts, 7 pts, 17 pts, 2 pts, 3 pts. One good game and the last 2 games with ATL against them he was 1-10 from the field against them.

We weren't lacking in shooting w/o Korver: we need a big to lessen our dependence on Frye, a backup PG, and most importantly someone who can fill that RJ role.

Korver's stats with Atlanta have no bearing. He will get far more open looks once he's initiated into the system. Again, he joined out team during our worst period of playing all season. Counting him out so early is beyond unreasonable.

 

[Pioneer10]

Korver's stats with Atlanta have no bearing. He will get far more open looks once he's initiated into the system. Again, he joined out team during our worst period of playing all season. Counting him out so early is beyond unreasonable.

I hope I'm wrong: not really sure where the unreasonable part of the equation comes in. Why have a message board then if not express your opinion? I have presented a cogent argument and just saying he's going to get more open looks doesn't negate any point I made. The more open looks would also have to balance out him being older and our offense not geared towards him (ATL had a very good system designed maximize his talent: not sure how will that translate here).

He had an amazing 3 year run in ATL but last season and up to this point this season his numbers dropped significantly. This is a large sample size. Just a big drop in his 3pt/TS% starting in the 15-16 season. Blame Delly

 

[TitleTown]

I hope I'm wrong: not really sure where the unreasonable part of the equation comes in. Why have a message board then if not express your opinion? I have presented a cogent argument and just saying he's going to get more open looks doesn't negate any point I made. The more open looks would also have to balance out him being older and our offense not geared towards him (ATL had a very good system designed maximize his talent: not sure how will that translate here).

He had an amazing 3 year run in ATL but last season and up to this point this season his numbers dropped significantly. This is a large sample size. Just a big drop in his 3pt/TS% starting in the 15-16 season. Blame Delly

Keep sharing your opinion! God knows that's all I'm doing

I just think it's unreasonable to write off Korver already. But, I love arguing--so please don't take my disagreement the wrong way.

And you could be right. Korver could end up being unplayable against GSW. But, I don't think we've seen enough of him with LBJ, Love, and Kyrie to know for sure. He'll have WAY more spacing with our team than he ever had in Atlanta.

 

[kookoo]

Quite serious: all that matters for this team is beating GS. Guys like Frye, Delly (who Livingston just killed on offense), and I fear Korver just become unplayable. You need to be able to defend one on one, get back on defense, get up in transition, along with able to take exploit a mismatch when switched when we have the ball. Look at Game 7 at last 8 man rotation only (really only 7 man as Mo only saw 5 minutes) with RJ playing 25 minutes.

I don't see anybody on this roster including RJ himself who can give them those critical minutes against GS. Sure I think Korver will help against most teams but not against GS. This is Korver against GS over the last 3 years with ATL: 5 pts, 7 pts, 17 pts, 2 pts, 3 pts. One good game and the last 2 games with ATL against them he was 1-10 from the field against them.

We weren't lacking in shooting w/o Korver: we need a big to lessen our dependence on Frye, a backup PG, and most importantly someone who can fill that RJ role.

If your core argument is Korver being a defensive liability, look up his defensive stats not offensive stats. JR shit the bed in the playoffs against GS outside of game 7, Shump threw up stinkers, Love was not great overall, as was Frye. It was literally LeBron and Kyrie who won the series for us. So does that mean Griffin has a lot of work to do getting rid of the guys who could be unplayable against Golden State?

I think our defensive scheme doesn't work with Golden State because they're all really good at pick and rolls as well as shooting with almost no space. There are very few guys who would not be a liability against the team. Which is why they've broken an almost unbeatable regular season record. Now, Atlanta was good over the last few years, but the talent on this Cavs team is better than any team Atlanta has ever had. Once Korver gets comfortable within the offense, I feel like he will be helpful against any team. Additionally, I'm hoping we can make some changes on the defensive end or at least up the overall team defense effort as it can be infectious. How do you think JR went from a liability on the defensive end to one of our best wing defenders? No one thought that was going to happen. Let's just give Korver a chance to get comfortable before we pass this judgement.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But the right team can rejuvenate a player. Hell, look at Kyle Lowry... In his 12th season he looks like the best player he's ever been after a few subpar years in Houston. He had one bad year in Toronto and then just started improving and hasn't looked back.

 

[shoes22]

You know who's a good screening big...

That guy in Dallas that’s not getting bought out?

 

[Pioneer10]

If your core argument is Korver being a defensive liability, look up his defensive stats not offensive stats. JR shit the bed in the playoffs against GS outside of game 7, Shump threw up stinkers, Love was not great overall, as was Frye. It was literally LeBron and Kyrie who won the series for us. So does that mean Griffin has a lot of work to do getting rid of the guys who could be unplayable against Golden State?

I think our defensive scheme doesn't work with Golden State because they're all really good at pick and rolls as well as shooting with almost no space. There are very few guys who would not be a liability against the team. Which is why they've broken an almost unbeatable regular season record. Now, Atlanta was good over the last few years, but the talent on this Cavs team is better than any team Atlanta has ever had. Once Korver gets comfortable within the offense, I feel like he will be helpful against any team. Additionally, I'm hoping we can make some changes on the defensive end or at least up the overall team defense effort as it can be infectious. How do you think JR went from a liability on the defensive end to one of our best wing defenders? No one thought that was going to happen. Let's just give Korver a chance to get comfortable before we pass this judgement.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But the right team can rejuvenate a player. Hell, look at Kyle Lowry... In his 12th season he looks like the best player he's ever been after a few subpar years in Houston. He had one bad year in Toronto and then just started improving and hasn't looked back.

Jr simply is a better athlete then Korver and he is and was younger when he came to the Cavs. I just don't think these arguments hold much water. Lowry was very good PG in Houston. He didn't get along with McHale and they saw a shot to save money. Dumb move by then. Age applies to Lowry he was much younger then Lowry when he startedoff in Toronto.

Korver is 35 whose numbers start showing declines starting about 1.5 years ago and on top of efficiency stats is supported by the sportsvu data.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

 

[CavsRules]

There are seriously people doubting this move to acquire Korver? There are people who don't like adding one of the best shooters this game has ever seen, for essentially free? Yikes.

Just because Korver isn't lighting it up right now during a difficult stretch of games for the Cavs, doesn't mean it's a bad move.

The Cavs aren't even 100% yet. That's when you will see how dangerous Korver can be. A career 42% three point shooter, who's coming off back to back years of shooting 40% from downtown will find his groove here. You can run sets with JR, Korver, Kyrie, Love, and LeBron all out on the floor at once and teams will need to figure out who they are going to let them beat them, because you cannot guard that lineup.

Defensively it will be an issue, but they did not acquire Korver for defensive reasons, they added him to make this offense even more deadly, and soon enough he will start doing what the majority of us envisioned, and that's create one of the most dangerous lineups in the game today.

Some people just need to relax and let this play out. They have so much time to figure this out that it's not even funny. They may also have a different roster in a few weeks.. You just need to remain patience for the time being.

Sent from my Galaxy Edge. Don't forget that the Golden State Warriors blew a 3-1 lead in the NBA Finals.

 

[TitleTown]

Sent from my Galaxy Edge. Don't forget that the Golden State Warriors blew a 3-1 lead in the NBA Finals.

Kudos to you if that's actually your cell phone signature!

 

[kookoo]

Jr simply is a better athlete then Korver and he is and was younger when he came to the Cavs. I just don't think these arguments hold much water. Lowry was very good PG in Houston. He didn't get along with McHale and they saw a shot to save money. Dumb move by then. Age applies to Lowry he was much younger then Lowry when he startedoff in Toronto.

Korver is 35 whose numbers start showing declines starting about 1.5 years ago and on top of efficiency stats is supported by the sportsvu data.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

But he's been here for like 2 weeks and barely practised with the team after a road trip against teams that ran us out the gym. Why not just give him a month to adjust. The effort I see from him on both ends is actually higher than most of the guys on the team. He actually tries to push through screens, and you can tell his cardio is at a high level because he's been used to running around to get open for essentially his entire career. He's now in a situation where he won't need to spend that much energy on the offensive end (and more than that, will make sure guys like LeBron and Kyrie can't both be doubled) so he might have more energy to spend on the defensive end. Again, this is a completely new team and a new start. Much like Frye (though outside of making 3s, Frye has constantly been bad at other aspects of basketball and age doesn't have much to do with him being a vortex of suck when LeBron isn't on the floor).

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Quite serious: all that matters for this team is beating GS. Guys like Frye, Delly (who Livingston just killed on offense), and I fear Korver just become unplayable. You need to be able to defend one on one, get back on defense, get up in transition, along with able to take exploit a mismatch when switched when we have the ball. Look at Game 7 at last 8 man rotation only (really only 7 man as Mo only saw 5 minutes) with RJ playing 25 minutes.

I don't see anybody on this roster including RJ himself who can give them those critical minutes against GS. Sure I think Korver will help against most teams but not against GS. This is Korver against GS over the last 3 years with ATL: 5 pts, 7 pts, 17 pts, 2 pts, 3 pts. One good game and the last 2 games with ATL against them he was 1-10 from the field against them.

We weren't lacking in shooting w/o Korver: we need a big to lessen our dependence on Frye, a backup PG, and most importantly someone who can fill that RJ role.

I think Korver can play AND maybe even make that RJ role a little more dangerous against GS.

I remember Jefferson guarding Klay, Iguodala, and Livingston for the most part. Korver on ANY of those guys doesn't make me particularly uncomfortable. Klay doesn't dribble anymore. He's got the size to match up with the other two and can sag off Iggy if he absolutely has to.

Durant changes the dynamic for sure, which is unfortunate, but you don't think Kyrie/JR/Korver/Bron/Thompson can work? I think that line-up might be sneakily devastating to the Warriors if JR is healthy/in a groove. I guess maybe they put Korver in pick&roll to try and force RJ or Shump onto the floor(Not convinced that RJ is completely toast either. He doesn't look a step slow to me, his shot just looks bad and his role seems different. I see him forcing a lot of shit this year that I don't remember him doing last year...maybe the Delly factor?? Maybe the fact that Frye is always the 5 with the RJ/Bron front-court instead of TT is a contributor(defense just bleeds too much)?

I dunno. Cavs have some stuff to figure out though. Still half a season to do it though.

I will say, I think we'll have a pretty good idea at the end of March, of exactly what 90% of our "best ball" looks like*minus the JR thing*. LeBron usually picks about 2 weeks in March where he turns almost all of his superpowers on to make sure they're still ready to go for the playoffs, and he's also instilled this habit into the team.

 

[Chris Parker]

But he's been here for like 2 weeks and barely practised with the team after a road trip against teams that ran us out the gym. Why not just give him a month to adjust. The effort I see from him on both ends is actually higher than most of the guys on the team. He actually tries to push through screens, and you can tell his cardio is at a high level because he's been used to running around to get open for essentially his entire career.

I think this is a good call. I have watched Korver very closely the last few games and came away with that same impression. I thought his physical limitations would be more apparent, but he does a nice job positioning his feet on D and while he's maybe not the best at contesting he isn't as slow laterally (that I've seen) as I expected. Occasionally out of place, but to be expected at this point w/o practices.... tho' I have to agree with those who feel Offense isnt the big need. Offense imo isn't as multiplicative as d; there are only so many shots, but everyone needs to play D. Indeed, the biggest diff KD has made for GSW is his rather surprising improvement on D and rim protection. He obviously helps on O, but that team didn't need a lot of help there...

 

[Kbiz]

Would like to see Korver get some extended burn tonight with a banged-up Love.

Still waiting on the Irving, Shump, Korver, LBJ, TT small ball look. Lots of shooting and capable of playing high-caliber D if everyone is tuned in.

 

[RuanuLaw]

Korver is not the problem. Its the system and limited time.

Im not worried though. We will work out the wrinkles and everything will be fine in a month or so.