Goodbye Larry Nance Jr.

[Cavatt]

Sure, I agree.

Hood and Nance are not nearly the same.

Still, that doesn't mean we should pay Nance based on potential. Smart teams take advantage of the market and what players currently are and score on good deals as a result. See GSW with Curry; They would have been in a completely different place had they paid Curry based on potential...and they are not the same players lol.

I think we can get Larry for 11 or 12 and should. Wasn't referring to that. The he is what he is comment was my point. Don't see the hard to fix issues with his game like Clarkson and Hood. That's all. I think he is most likely of the 3 to show out at some point

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I think we can get Larry for 11 or 12 and should. Wasn't referring to that. The he is what he is comment was my point. Don't see the hard to fix issues with his game like Clarkson and Hood. That's all. I think he is most likely of the 3 to show out at some point

K...we can agree on that.

As far as the numbers go, 11-12M is too much. 9-10M is fine I guess.

Well, he is already much better than them as far as impact goes.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

It all depends on how we plan to use him. He wants to be here, we want him, why not try to lock him up now longterm. To me he is in the Delly risk level of not getting him locked up now. I can see him as a guy if given starter level mins, turns into a quality starting level big, which over the next few summers could get 15+ with the cap going up, and the amount of cap space available. He has the traits a lot of teams like, team player, no off court drama, plays hard, and is coach able. If not for having Love on this team, who is a top 5 pf, Nance would be our starting 4, and I think he could start on half the nba teams. I think it is a great deal if you could get him locked up for 4 years/ 44 to 45 MM.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

It all depends on how we plan to use him. He wants to be here, we want him, why not try to lock him up now longterm. To me he is in the Delly risk level of not getting him locked up now. I can see him as a guy if given starter level mins, turns into a quality starting level big, which over the next few summers could get 15+ with the cap going up, and the amount of cap space available. He has the traits a lot of teams like, team player, no off court drama, plays hard, and is coach able. If not for having Love on this team, who is a top 5 pf, Nance would be our starting 4, and I think he could start on half the nba teams. I think it is a great deal if you could get him locked up for 4 years/ 44 to 45 MM.

But how can be our starting PF with Love locked for half a decade?

 

[Cavsfan1985]

K...we can agree on that.

As far as the numbers go, 11-12M is too much. 9-10M is fine I guess.

Well, he is already much better than them as far as impact goes.

I think part of the issue in the NBA is the way the cap has gone up, 11-12M sounds like so much money. The cap is estimated at 109MM in 19/20 and over 116 in 20/21. Even at 12M that is less then 12% of the cap. To put in perspective, 4 years ago the cap was 63M so 12% of the cap would have been a deal starting at around 7.6MM a year.

 

[Turnipwagon]

My dream for Nance is that he develops a Channing Frye level 3-point shot, including the quick release.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

But how can be our starting PF with Love locked for half a decade?

I am not saying he will be our starting pf, but he can definitely play starter level mins. Nance can play next to Love if we want to go smaller, and is great fit as the first big of the bench role. The energy he would bring to the second unit would be huge.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I am not saying he will be our starting pf, but he can definitely play starter level mins. Nance can play next to Love if we want to go smaller, and is great fit as the first big of the bench role. The energy he would bring to the second unit would be huge.

I think he can play next to anyone in certain lineup combinations.

But what I want out of player that is getting paid 12M a year is for him to be our starter of the future...especially on a rebuilding team.

Before signing Love, the prequisite for being a starter at PF for him was to develop a shot. For us to develo pa proper offensive scheme, our PF has to have some kind of range.

Now, whether he develops a shot or not, he will still be a backup PF with Love on the roster. He can be starter at C if he proves to be durable, but this will come in favor of Zizic.

We also have Arturas Gudaitis potentially coming in, and if he does, he should be our backup C.

So where do we stand? For us to maximize our assets, I have to view Nance as a PF...because Zizic and Guidaitis are both Centers, and both of them will have to play...and Zizic will have to play big minutes soon.(if Gudaitis comes over)

Basically I don't really care whether he starts or not. But if he doesn't, he should be paid like a backup big. I dunno, it's a peculiar position we are in.

 

[amurderofcrows]

Splitting the minutes more evenly than the 30+and 18- that is more traditional would solve a lot of problems with keeping guys fresh.
Love and Nance and Ante playing 28-20 minutes would seem to be a good idea. Throw in a bit of Frye for the microwave mode on offense.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

I think he can play next to anyone in certain lineup combinations.

But what I want out of player that is getting paid 12M a year is for him to be our starter of the future...especially on a rebuilding team.

Before signing Love, the prequisite for being a starter at PF for him was to develop a shot. For us to develo pa proper offensive scheme, our PF has to have some kind of range.

Now, whether he develops a shot or not, he will still be a backup PF with Love on the roster. He can be starter at C if he proves to be durable, but this will come in favor of Zizic.

We also have Arturas Gudaitis potentially coming in, and if he does, he should be our backup C.

So where do we stand? For us to maximize our assets, I have to view Nance as a PF...because Zizic and Guidaitis are both Centers, and both of them will have to play...and Zizic will have to play big minutes soon.(if Gudaitis comes over)

Basically I don't really care whether he starts or not. But if he doesn't, he should be paid like a backup big. I dunno, it's a peculiar position we are in.

I think with the new cap, 10-12 million is the range for a backup big. Again, if I had told you we could have signed him for 6-7MM 4 years ago, I think you are happy with the deal. 10-12 million is the new 6-7MM from a few years ago.

Also look at the MLE - It is at 8.6M with max raises, a player can sign for 4 years and 37MM, if the cap goes up to 107MM next year the MLE would probably start at just under 9 and be worth, 4 years at about 38.5MM. So is a contract range in the 4 years 40/44 MM is not a big over pay, plus we avoid the risk of him having a big year, and getting even more. To me the only risk in giving Nance the money now, is it eats into the cap space for next year as his cap hold would be significantly less then what his ext would be at.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

Splitting the minutes more evenly than the 30+and 18- that is more traditional would solve a lot of problems with keeping guys fresh.
Love and Nance and Ante playing 28-20 minutes would seem to be a good idea. Throw in a bit of Frye for the microwave mode on offense.

I think this is a great point, and with Lue wanting to run a more fast pace system it makes sense to rotate guys to keep them fresh. I also think Nance will be a great fit next to Sexton running the court and getting easy looks at the rim. I still think the piece this teams needs is to find a player who can play the 3/4 and shoot. That type of player would fit perfect next to Nance with the second unit.

 

[amurderofcrows]

Can Koby send Lue a Memo that it is not necessary to play guys 10+ minutes in a row? Unless, of course, the unit/player(s) on the floor is a killin' it.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I think with the new cap, 10-12 million is the range for a backup big. Again, if I had told you we could have signed him for 6-7MM 4 years ago, I think you are happy with the deal. 10-12 million is the new 6-7MM from a few years ago.

Also look at the MLE - It is at 8.6M with max raises, a player can sign for 4 years and 37MM, if the cap goes up to 107MM next year the MLE would probably start at just under 9 and be worth, 4 years at about 38.5MM. So is a contract range in the 4 years 40/44 MM is not a big over pay, plus we avoid the risk of him having a big year, and getting even more. To me the only risk in giving Nance the money now, is it eats into the cap space for next year as his cap hold would be significantly less then what his ext would be at.

I think with the cap going up you are at risk again of overpaying for fringe NBA players...just like what happened a few years ago. While Nance is not a fringe NBA player(Hood is), he is still a role player at this point and with how we are currently constructed.

For a small market team and even teams in general, with the cap going up over the next few years, what you really want is to pay big for real star players, but keep your role players salary small; either by signing them to favorable deals or by hitting on late 1st round picks/2nd rounders...which now is more possible than ever because there are so many talented players in the draft.

Also, with the cap going up it should really help the teams that pay for supermax players...really, otherwise it wouldn't be possible for them to field a contender.

I understand what you are saying, but it's still the same money. Star players and starters will get much more, and it will even out eventually. MLE being 8.7M only means that you can get much better players than you could when it was much smaller.

I want Nance to be a Cavalier for life, so signing him( in contrast to Hood who I value only as an asset) is just for us to not constraint themsevles when dealing with futrure FAs as well as how I view his role on the team in the future...When you have a chance to sign a favorable deal, you do it...and in this scenario, it's only fair.

 

[inliner311]

I think Nance and Love can be a very interesting pairing especially if Nance can develop a respectable 3 point shot and be durable enough to play center. The ability to play both of them inside and/or outside would make our offense real versatile. Both can also be good passers from the high post and their rebounding style complement each other.

I just have a hard time valuing how much Nance is worth right now. By next summer it will be much clearer. He has the potential to be a start if he is durable enough. Adding a 3 point shot makes him more playable when pairing with other players. His floor without the durabability to play center and without a 3 point shot is a 3rd or 4th big off the bench. I also think we then have to search for a long term stretch 5 to pair with him then.

I think realistically Nance is playing some sort of combination of PF and center minutes. What that ratio is I think it's the biggest unknown right now.

 

[billmac91]

I think Nance and Love can be a very interesting pairing especially if Nance can develop a respectable 3 point shot and be durable enough to play center. The ability to play both of them inside and/or outside would make our offense real versatile. Both can also be good passers from the high post and their rebounding style complement each other.

I just have a hard time valuing how much Nance is worth right now. By next summer it will be much clearer. He has the potential to be a start if he is durable enough. Adding a 3 point shot makes him more playable when pairing with other players. His floor without the durabability to play center and without a 3 point shot is a 3rd or 4th big off the bench. I also think we then have to search for a long term stretch 5 to pair with him then.

I think realistically Nance is playing some sort of combination of PF and center minutes. What that ratio is I think it's the biggest unknown right now.

Not to say he can't develop the skill or toughness, I was just really disappointed in his ability to bang down low defensively. He really got pushed around under the hoop, and it was disappointing because I feel like rather using physicality, he'd rely more on athleticism and positioning.

I think he's a relatively high IQ player.....I'm just not sure he's that confident in his ability defensively against more physical 5's. It's not a great apples to apples comparison, but Clint Capela at 240lbs is one of the best defenders in the league. Granted he has a 7'5" wingspan to Nance's 7'1", but Capela's defense is all about positioning and using his thaleticism to contest at the rim. Capela isn't a banger either....but he uses his athleticism to protect the rim. I'm over-simplyfiying, but there were times Larry would get so tight on his man, all it'd take is a simple shoulder turn into his body, knock him off balance, and an easy lay-in ensued. Capela will give that same offensive player enough space where he dares them to shoot, and uses his athleticism to high-point the ball and swat it away. You rarely get to body Capela up.

I like Nance. I worry about how his game ages. He's relatively short for a Center at 6'8", but his jumping ability and arm length makes up for some of it. I think his game will look better in an up-tempo scheme with Sexton pushing pace. I think ideally, he does develop a 32-35% 3pt shot and stretch defenses a bit.

I hope we strike a fair deal with him. Would love to see him be a Cav long-term.