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Week 15: Bengals (8-4) @ Browns (7-6) | 1:00 p.m. | FOX

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killerkev369 said:
After 15 games and little to no progress, one needs to start wondering what the problem is...
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If he's equally as awful next game, I will be extremely concerned, yes.

Some people can learn by watching. Some need to do things for themselves.
 
Cluegiver said:
If he's equally as awful next game, I will be extremely concerned, yes.

Some people can learn by watching. Some need to do things for themselves.
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I am definitely excited to see his next two games, but if he shows this same kind of stuff the next two games, I would hope the team would have some sort of contingency plan...
 
Cluegiver said:
If he's equally as awful next game, I will be extremely concerned, yes.

Some people can learn by watching. Some need to do things for themselves.
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The problem is... rookie QBs are usually very effective their first few games until opposing defenses get film on them and learn their tendancies.

The problem here, is that Johnny has had a full season to sit and learn. And he is still very ineffective. History has shown us that quarterbacks get worse after their first few starts rather than better.

It is not looking good. All the questions marks are bigger question marks.
 
Orange Julius said:
I agree with all of this. But I am willing to give him more than one game.
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I am too, he can have the rest of the season it's meaningless now anyway. I just do t want to hitch my wagon to this guy longterm unless he can show some growth.

This team can be competitive next year with a decent QB. I don't want to waste that window because we drafted Charlie Frye because he was popular.
 
Shakalu M.D. said:
I am too, he can have the rest of the season it's meaningless now anyway. I just do t want to hitch my wagon to this guy longterm unless he can show some growth.

This team can be competitive next year with a decent QB. I don't want to waste that window because we drafted Charlie Frye because he was popular.
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But that's exactly what we did.
 
Shakalu M.D. said:
It's not that he played poorly, it's that literally every concern that people had about him was on display today. Couple that with his persona and seemingly poor work ethic and it's a scary scenario.
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He worked hard this week. Yes, it's a big problem that he seemingly hasn't been working hard most of the season, but that's part of the maturation process. I don't know what his persona has to do with anything.

As far as not knowing the playbook, the only possible play you could point to is the one where he went one way and the West went the other. Lynch said on the broadcast that West is the one that fucked up.

Yes, Johnny looked about as bad as he could possibly look, but the O-line played terribly (just as they had been with Hoyer), the defense's inability to stop the run was heavily exposed, and our return teams were terrible. This was an all around dog shit performance.

I really thought fans would be able to understand that Johnny was a rookie and was going to play like one, but @Randolphkeys nailed it that everyone would jump all over a bad performance.
 
caf said:
The problem is... rookie QBs are usually very effective their first few games until opposing defenses get film on them and learn their tendancies.

The problem here, is that Johnny has had a full season to sit and learn. And he is still very ineffective. History has shown us that quarterbacks get worse after their first few starts rather than better.

It is not looking good. All the questions marks are bigger question marks.
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What? This doesn't make any sense.

Johnny tried to do stuff he did in college, like throw balls up for Evans (Gabriel) and it didn't work. He tried to float some balls in there (Hawkins). If he continues to do stuff like this, then it's time to move on. But you can't learn NFL speed from sitting on the sidelines. Practice vs. games is also a different level. I'm sure he'll be glad to put this game behind him and turn in a much better performance next week.
 
spydy13 said:
He worked hard this week. Yes, it's a big problem that he seemingly hasn't been working hard most of the season, but that's part of the maturation process. I don't know what his persona has to do with anything.

As far as not knowing the playbook, the only possible play you could point to is the one where he went one way and the West went the other. Lynch said on the broadcast that West is the one that fucked up.

Yes, Johnny looked about as bad as he could possibly look, but the O-line played terribly (just as they had been with Hoyer), the defense's inability to stop the run was heavily exposed, and our return teams were terrible. This was an all around dog shit performance.

I really thought fans would be able to understand that Johnny was a rookie and was going to play like one, but @Randolphkeys nailed it that everyone would jump all over a bad performance.
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Persona was an autocorrect, meant to say personality. By that I meant drive to work hard and improve. He says all the right things, but not doing work until the week of your first start is a glaring red flag.

And I do get that he's a rookie, if he just made your typical rookie mistakes I wouldn't be so worried. The fact that most of his problems were the same concerns about him coming out is another red flag. The fact that he's shown no growth since the pre-season is another red flag.

I wanted nothing to do with him coming out because I saw this coming. That run around and heave it up style just won't fly in the NFL. He came from an offense where they ran the same 3 plays over and over again. His ability to process an NFL offense is a concern.

My biggest problem with him is his work ethic. You can't have that from the guy supposed to lead your team. All the greats have one thing in common and that's the drive to be the best and an unparalleled work ethic. I don't see that drive with Manziel. He's more Ryan Leaf than Tom Brady (in terms of work ethic, not skill sets).

I know it's ridiculous to give up on a guy after 3 games, I just feel it in my gut that this guy is just Charlie Frye again. If he doesnt improve i just want to cut ties. Especially in a draft where the top pick could be available. Most of the 2 win teams just took QBs. I think Mariota will be a special player.

Not going to remotely argue with you about the rest of the team sucking too, they absolutely did.
 
The thing that makes this funny/sad/bewildering is how this performance was indicative of all the issues raised about Johnny yet folks still will not admit that he has then and will continue to until he proves otherwise. The obvious writing is obvious. He wasn't prepared, didn't start working hard until he was handed the job, seemed to fire up the other team more than ours, the bad body language, the crap mechanics, his game that his athleticism cannot support, etc. At least Doug Flutie was a leader.
 
Shakalu M.D. said:
Persona was an autocorrect, meant to say personality. By that I meant drive to work hard and improve. He says all the right things, but not doing work until the week of your first start is a glaring red flag.

And I do get that he's a rookie, if he just made your typical rookie mistakes I wouldn't be so worried. The fact that most of his problems were the same concerns about him coming out is another red flag. The fact that he's shown no growth since the pre-season is another red flag.

I wanted nothing to do with him coming out because I saw this coming. That run around and heave it up style just won't fly in the NFL. He came from an offense where they ran the same 3 plays over and over again. His ability to process an NFL offense is a concern.

My biggest problem with him is his work ethic. You can't have that from the guy supposed to lead your team. All the greats have one thing in common and that's the drive to be the best and an unparalleled work ethic. I don't see that drive with Manziel. He's more Ryan Leaf than Tom Brady (in terms of work ethic, not skill sets).

I know it's ridiculous to give up on a guy after 3 games, I just feel it in my gut that this guy is just Charlie Frye again. If he doesnt improve i just want to cut ties. Especially in a draft where the top pick could be available. Most of the 2 win teams just took QBs. I think Mariota will be a special player.

Not going to remotely argue with you about the rest of the team sucking too, they absolutely did.
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Your're forgetting Cincy isn't a team who's been to the post season 3 straight seasons and have a team full of vets and a 10+ year head coach. Did you forget how bad our run defense was? How many procedure penalties did we have on offense. Joe Thomas had yet another one.

Also for whatever reason the coaching staff wanted to run read options all day. As bad as we have looked the latter half of the season what did you expect from a guy who's taken 10 snaps all season.

Manziel - Rookie
West - Rookie
Crow - Rookie
Seymore - Rookie
Agnew - Rookie
Rookie head coach
 
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Shakalu M.D. said:
He says all the right things, but not doing work until the week of your first start is a glaring red flag.

The fact that he's shown no growth since the pre-season is another red flag.

His ability to process an NFL offense is a concern.

Especially in a draft where the top pick could be available. Most of the 2 win teams just took QBs.
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1. Certainly a big problem, but I don't see it being a problem moving forward. I fully expect him to work his ass off in the offseason.

2. How is he supposed to improve? You have to play and make those mistakes we saw today before you can improve.

3. He had one of the highest wonderlic scores in the draft; he's no dummy. He definitely has a lot to learn about an NFL offense though because of the basic system he played in college, and I think it will eventually happen.

4. I really don't see this. There are a couple teams that don't need QBs, but there are way more at the top that do. Unless you want to package both our 1's, a 2, and a 4, I don't see it happening. We need to build depth, see what we have in Johnny, then reboot after next year if necessary.
 
Love how many of you are ready to throw in the towel on Manziel after 1 game. It's no wonder the Browns never win shit.
 
Los216 said:
Your're forgetting Cincy isn't a team who's been to the post season 3 straight seasons and have a team full of vets and a 10+ year head coach. Did you forget how bad our run defense was? How many procedure penalties did we have on offense. Joe Thomas had yet another one.

Also for whatever reason the coaching staff wanted to run read options all day. As bad as we have looked the latter half of the season what did you expect from a guy who's taken 10 snaps all season.

Manziel - Rookie
West - Rookie
Crow - Rookie
Seymore - Rookie
Agnew - Rookie
Rookie head coach
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This is why I just want consistency. Marvin Lewis is far from a top teir head coach, nor is Mike Brown a big spender. But they do illustrate that consistency can pay dividend. I think this coaching staff deserves a long term look.
 
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