Hue da Man - PC bulletpoints in OP here, discussion in Hue Jackson thread

AZ_ said:

I'm not on any bandwagon, you're reasoning is just dumb.

If every hire is sketchy because it's the Browns, whatever. That's a tired point as well.

At least come up with something better than a one year stat line. Doesn't even make any sense.

You can point to literally any coach and play that game.

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It's a one year stat line because he's only head coached for one year.

You cannot point to any other coach whose team broke the league record for penalties because he holds it.

Turmoil or no turmoil, 1,300 plus yards in penalties is ridiculous.

If Hue becomes coach, one thing he must do is develop players. This is a trait that Chud, Shurmur and Pettine did not have. They have to bring along players and develop them properly.

GonzoRatso88 said:

The one guy I trust when it comes to stuff like this is @Randolphkeys because he knows the Bay Area well and am sure knows more about Jackson's tenure in Oakland better than we do. Would be interested to hear his thoughts...

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I'll be happy to throw in what I know.

First of all, it's significant to note chaos surrounded Jackson's year leading into being a head coach, and marred the season he was the head man.

Zombie Al Davis - who was absolutely the most entertaining and self destructive undead force in pro sports - was on his deathbed. The 49ers just got their hands on Harbaugh, and turned thier fortune around in the blink of an eye. Nothing could have made Zombie Al more angry than his crosstown rivals suddenly righting the ship. So, Zombie Al promotes Hue Jackson from OC to the head job, replacing Tom Cable who was beating his women. It's win now while my undead body still roams the Earth or perish.

Zombie Al also took the plunge trading a HUGE haul of 1st rounders for Carson Palmer, Hue's hand-picked QB. The problem was, Palmer had been a holdout and not in football shape, refusing to play for the hapless Bengals franchise.

So, they go 8 and 8 and actually tie for 1st in the AFC West, but Denver wins the tiebreaker. Oakland is out of the playoffs, Zombie Al "dies" and Hue never gets to finish his vision. He still had the Raiders on the right track... he just wasn't making the impact Harbaugh was making on the other side of town.

Dennis Allen goes on to make everything worse in his place.

Hue was right there on my shortlist with the McDaniels/Cesario duo.

Keys, who was integral in bringing Palmer in? That set the franchise back big time, because he was horrendous for Oakland.

JSS2306 said:

It's a one year stat line because he's only head coached for one year.

You cannot point to any other coach whose team broke the league record for penalties because he holds it.

Turmoil or no turmoil, 1,300 plus yards in penalties is ridiculous.

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Basically the same number they put up the year before he took over.

Or does that one not count?

AZ_ said:

Basically the same number they put up the year before he took over.

Or does that one not count?

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Yes, Hue's players somehow found a way to pile up more yards out of penalties than the previous year. Points for Hue?

Again, I'm only using what information I have available to me from his past experience as head coach.

Kinda like you saying the Browns defense would carry them to 7 wins this season because the previous year they were pretty decent on that side of the ball. I, like you, rationalized in the same way and, like you, could also be completely wrong.

It's far from a slam dunk hire and he could still interview with NY in the coming days so I'm not sure it's worth getting too excited about until a contract is offered and signed.

How do we know Hue and not the Bengals QB coach is to be credited with Dalton's improvement?

It's funny. Bengals fans can't stand him. I'd take him in a fucking heartbeat. Not because he's great, but because I have zero faith a Browns FO can select a legitimate QB in the draft.

Step 1 was ditching Farmer though.

The Oi said:

How do we know Hue and not the Bengals QB coach is to be credited with Dalton's improvement?

It's funny. Bengals fans can't stand him. I'd take him in a fucking heartbeat. Not because he's great, but because I have zero faith a Browns FO can select a legitimate QB in the draft.

Step 1 was ditching Farmer though.

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Their QB coach has been there for 13 years..

JSS2306 said:

Yes, Hue's players somehow found a way to pile up more yards out of penalties than the previous year. Points for Hue?

Again, I'm only using what information I have available to me from his past experience as head coach.

Kinda like you saying the Browns defense would carry them to 7 wins this season because the previous year they were pretty decent on that side of the ball. I, like you, rationalized in the same way and, like you, could also be completely wrong.

It's far from a slam dunk hire and he could still interview with NY in the coming days so I'm not sure it's worth getting too excited about until a contract is offered and signed.

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Well actually what you're doing is not using all the information you have available, instead choosing to focus on one metric to tell the story you want while ignoring everything else on his resume.

DJTJ said:

Keys, who was integral in bringing Palmer in? That set the franchise back big time, because he was horrendous for Oakland.

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It was all Hue, I think he lobbied hard for his former protégé from USC and Cincinnati. Remember that the reason Hue made the jump from college football to the pros was Palmer.

On the other hand, look at what Palmer did in Arizona. He was far from washed up. His knee was an issue, but everything else screamed franchise quarterback. Palmer is now about four years removed and he outplayed 3/4th of the league.

Slightly off topic, if you don't miss the Zombie Al Davis Raiders... you weren't paying attention. I miss that black jumpsuit wearing, scotch chugging, physical assault threatening blowhard Zombie every day.

Every single day.

Hue helped Dalton by running the ball. Focus on the running
Gruden
2015 Bengals had 362 2nd plays. 163 (45%) rushing attempts and 188 passes.
the 2013 bengals had 402 plays. 157 (39%) rushes and 234 passes.
Also in the Red zone. Jackson runs more than he calls pass plays and Gruden passed more than he called run plays.

Both offenses averaged similar points per game.

Tornicade said:

Hue helped Dalton by running the ball. Focus on the running
Gruden
2015 Bengals had 362 2nd plays. 163 (45%) rushing attempts and 188 passes.
the 2013 bengals had 402 plays. 157 (39%) rushes and 234 passes.
Also in the Red zone. Jackson runs more than he calls pass plays and Gruden passed more than he called run plays.

Both offenses averaged similar points per game.

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From my column here: http://rcfsports.com/2016/01/09/a-look-at-the-browns-head-coaching-candidates-part-2/

Under Jackson, Cincinnati scored on 39.6% of their possessions in 2015, up from 34% under Jackson in ’14 and up from 32.3% in 2013, before Jackson. Their turnover % also improved from 14.3 in 2013 to 13.1 to 9.3 in 2015..

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Figured I'd throw my 2 cents in from the shadows...

I'll start with a disclaimer: Hue Jackson is who I wanted from day one when discussing potential candidates..

This year's coaching class was/is underwhelming to say the least... To me it was a bunch of "meh" candidates... Guys that had pluses and minuses, but no home runs in the group... While Jackson has his warts, is the closest thing to fulfilling what the Browns need..

More than anything, the Browns need someone who can come in establish an attitude, be a leader, bring credibility and be the face of this franchise... Very few of the other candidates out there I see being able to do that... The Browns have had so many other coaches in the past, they need their next one to have attitude to not let that bother him... Most importantly, they need a leader, a communicator and Jackson is able to do that better than anyone else... When it comes down to it: coordinators scheme both sides of the ball, the head coach is more of a manager... We get too caught up on how successful they are at coaching offense or defense... the more important question is: can they manage people? how do they lead? are they a teacher? Jackson fills all the boxes...

Is a guy like Matt Patricia really ready to lead a team? Especially a team like the Browns? That's a tall task for anyone, let alone someone like Patricia (as much as he sounds intriguing)... Jackson has been there, done that and that will allow for the head coach learning curve to be expedited..

The other thing plaguing a guy like Patricia and even Austin or McDermott is reputation... Yeah they're hot coordinators but guys like Mack and Thomas have seen it all... They need someone to inspire confidence in the direction of the team; someone like Jackson can do that and can sell them on the direction... While the Browns shouldn't be trying to impress current players, Thomas and Mack are linchpins in the Browns off-season plans.. If they come back, we could see Schwartz and Benjamin follow... If they go? It could be an all out exodus, leaving our offensive line looking disastrous...

I tend to look at his experience with Oakland as a plus in this case... He essentially was a pinch hitter who got his experience without being actually considered a retread coach (see Bruce Arians).. He's someone who's hungry for his next job and won't be afraid of the challenge ahead..

If he can manage the disaster and go 8-8 in Oakland (ironic enough he started 7-4 like someone else we know), I'd say it bodes well for him in Cleveland...

If you listen to Amy Trask, a former Raiders CEO during Hue Jackson's tenure, she speaks very glowingly of Jackson... She mentions she'd recommend, and has recommended him to NFL teams, and would go as far as wanting him to coach her kids youth team... In the same interview, she also mentions there were behind the scene issues that plagued Jackson that the public doesn't know about in Oakland... Whatever they may be, we don't know, but it just goes to show what a job 8-8 was that season..

It's hard to tell based on his coaching staff who he'd bring along or how much success can be attributed to him in Oakland, but based on several articles very little, if any, of the coaches on the staff were his choice... Mike Silver came out with an article saying he wanted to hire Jack Del Rio as his defensive coordinator (so no Chuck Brensahan was not his choice whoever brought that up) but Davis wouldn't let him make any changes... So, yeah I think it's fair to say he did pretty well..

The other underrated aspect of why I like Jackson is his experience within the AFC North.. He has 9 seasons being in the division, some with two different teams... He knows what it takes to win in this division, knows the other teams well and has a unique perspective on the Browns... For someone who has played the Browns and seen the dysfunction upfront, he has seen enough from the outside to know what needs to be changed... It's an underrated quality to this hire...

The two key questions to this potential hire will be: 1). is he open enough to the analytics? Mike Silver says yes but for a old school football guy, it's hard to say. (it'll be a challenge for whomever they hire) 2). will they be able to attract a personnel man? With the current front office structure and with Jackson potentially getting control, how will they get someone to be a "GM"? Talent acquisition has been poor so getting a good eye in the front office is arguably the most important acquisition of the off-season...

In the end, Jackson is the type of football mind and, most importantly, the communicator and leader the Browns need to resurrect them...

If they fail? None of the other candidates strike me as noteworthy... Patricia, McDermott and Austin are all on a similar level to me...

I'm getting excited thinking the Browns could land the guy they need but know I shouldn't... We'll see if it's any different this time around; here's to hoping it is..

Back to lurking

MoFlo said:

From my column here: http://rcfsports.com/2016/01/09/a-look-at-the-browns-head-coaching-candidates-part-2/

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Not sure what your wanting me to see?
I was posting about how play calling was a big factor in the offense improvement. Dalton benefited from having the offense more committed to the run. This link shows what he improved not how he did it.

2nd down and red zone play calling was very telling in distinguishing the offensive style difference of Jay Gruden and Hue Jackson

Would be interested to hear Dalton speak on what Hue helped him change, if in fact it was Hue.

One big change is that he made fewer bad throws.