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Iman Shumpert: Gone! Thank God!

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I'mWithDan said:
One thing to keep in mind is J.R.'s absence has done two things.

1. It has thrust Shump in to a role he's not been playing for 2 years. That can be tough for someone who had previously adjusted to their place in the rotation.

2. J.R.'s absence has also removed Shump's closest confidant on the team. He's the guy Shump leans on off the court and I think that certainly has an effect when going through a slump.

Throw in he's being asked to play a bit out of position with no backup PG and you can see how all these things might be snowballing on him.

He played so well earlier in the year but as his role has adjusted, due to personnel and injury issues, he's certainly bottomed out. Hopefully he can bounce back after this road trip.
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He has exactly the same role, he plays with the same players. A lot of excuses going on here.
Put him on the trade block again and try to raise his value once more, but this time actually do something.
 
Wolfpack 1983 said:
Was Kyrie ball hog really 5 for 18. That's why they lost
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@Rob @gourimoko @jking948 @CosmoKramer @godfather
 
He should have been in the starting line up as soon as JR went down. If he's not better than Ligon, Korver and then Jr then move him. Mind games are killing him. Early on he was going to play point which stopped after the 2nd week. Now stuck in the corner 99 % of the time. Trade him so everyone can move on.
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
He has exactly the same role, he plays with the same players. A lot of excuses going on here.
Put him on the trade block again and try to raise his value once more, but this time actually do something.
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What is your realistic return in a trade for him? I get it, it would be nice to have someone better, who is that someone?

The Shump trade talk is some mythical thing people keep discussing IMO. There aren't realistic trade targets out there that return athleticism and length at a position where we need it….and that’s not even getting in to the price tag from a contractual / tax standpoint.

IMO his limitations are being magnified based on a variety of factors out of his control. Including but not limited to injuries, roster deficiencies and the way he is being cycled in the rotation.

To me, it seems like you would wait for at least one of those things to normalize before making any sort of decision on an athletic wing player on a pretty friendly contract. Or No?

I understand there is frustration with him, I just think it’s a situation where it is pretty unrealistic to expect an upgrade based on a variety of factors (age, contract, market temp). We’re better served trying to find players that will supplement the roster and take some responsibilities off his plate vs. moving him and getting potentially older, less athletic and more financially vested.
 
I'mWithDan said:
What is your realistic return in a trade for him? I get it, it would be nice to have someone better, who is that someone?

The Shump trade talk is some mythical thing people keep discussing IMO. There aren't realistic trade targets out there that return athleticism and length at a position where we need it….and that’s not even getting in to the price tag from a contractual / tax standpoint.

IMO his limitations are being magnified based on a variety of factors out of his control. Including but not limited to injuries, roster deficiencies and the way he is being cycled in the rotation.

To me, it seems like you would wait for at least one of those things to normalize before making any sort of decision on an athletic wing player on a pretty friendly contract. Or No?

I understand there is frustration with him, I just think it’s a situation where it is pretty unrealistic to expect an upgrade based on a variety of factors (age, contract, market temp). We’re better served trying to find players that will supplement the roster and take some responsibilities off his plate vs. moving him and getting potentially older, less athletic and more financially vested.
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I think you answered your own question. The value of a player in a trade is based on a few things: NBA Value, Future Prognosis (Age), Contract, Character

NBA Value - How much do they help you win basketball games now?
Future Prognosis - Mostly their age, but what will their game look like over the rest of their contract
Contract - How good are the contract terms, how long can we hold them for sure. What will the next contract look like?
Character - Are they a team cancer?

Every team weights these four things different (and evaluates players differently on each metric). People want to trade Shumpert because they see his Future Prognosis (Age 26) and Contract ($9M/year) as huge +'s. On the contrary, they think that the Cavs should weight NBA Value more highly than other teams in the league (because we're trying to win this year).

So if we can get a player with more current NBA Value, in exchange for a poorer Future Prognosis and Contract, then we should do it. If that player is on a team with a long term interest, than they should do it too.
 
Shumpert is balling

Idk why ppl would wanna trade him
 
Tyreke Evans is in the last year of his contract and makes $10.2, which is close enough to match.

I'd rather have Evans than Shumpert if the team isn't going to add a decent PG, because Evans could be a backup distributor/2nd team leader. I'd give Liggins his D assignments. Shumpert is just as likely to be a black hole offensively or injured as useful, probably more so.
 
Kizzle said:
Shumpert is balling

Idk why ppl would wanna trade him
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Really? This qualifies as balling? He's not even averaging a steal/game in 27/mpg. Is his use to be the guy running at the wide open three guy right before he sinks it? because he was killing at that last night....

 
Chris Parker said:
Tyreke Evans is in the last year of his contract and makes $10.2, which is close enough to match.

I'd rather have Evans than Shumpert if the team isn't going to add a decent PG, because Evans could be a backup distributor/2nd team leader. I'd give Liggins his D assignments. Shumpert is just as likely to be a black hole offensively or injured as useful, probably more so.
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If Pelicans would trade us Evans for Shumpert I would be jumping for joy. Evans would be perfect on this team.
 
Chris Parker said:
Tyreke Evans is in the last year of his contract and makes $10.2, which is close enough to match.

I'd rather have Evans than Shumpert if the team isn't going to add a decent PG, because Evans could be a backup distributor/2nd team leader. I'd give Liggins his D assignments. Shumpert is just as likely to be a black hole offensively or injured as useful, probably more so.
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How is Evans' defense?
 
When I say balling

I say he's playing well enough for his 10 million dollar contract


His play is Definitely not a worry for me. We can win with him doing exactly what he's doing now
 
Chris Parker said:
Tyreke Evans is in the last year of his contract and makes $10.2, which is close enough to match.

I'd rather have Evans than Shumpert if the team isn't going to add a decent PG, because Evans could be a backup distributor/2nd team leader. I'd give Liggins his D assignments. Shumpert is just as likely to be a black hole offensively or injured as useful, probably more so.
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It makes sense -- but too many injuries for Evans lately, and knee injuries. Two surgeries on the same knee with 1 year recovery times doesn't sound good.

Would be a big risk that he wouldn't hold up the rest of this season, much less long turn.
 
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Chris Parker said:
I'm afraid I'd describe it as "not good". DFG% was like +7% last year. never been known for D. But a 39% 3pt shooter and 40% on catch & shoot.
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I think you're wrong on the 3PT shooting too -- career he is a 0.289 3PT shooter. He did shoot 38.8% last year, but that was only a sample size of 25 games (before he got hurt). Only 85 attempts last year. This year he is again shooting 0.323 (only 10/31 thus far).

I think last year was just fluky, which is to be expected with such a small sample size.
 
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