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Iman Shumpert: Gone! Thank God!

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Chris Parker said:
I'm afraid I'd describe it as "not good". DFG% was like +7% last year. never been known for D. But a 39% 3pt shooter and 40% on catch & shoot.
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His defense is definitely not great... But I think the +7% DFG% is a little bit inflated by a terrible Pelicans' defense. He wasn't a great defensive player last year, but when he was on the floor with Jrue Holiday - a very capable defender - he looked a lot better. Per NBAWowy, he gave up about 5 points less per 100 possessions when Holiday was on the court, and moreover, overall better defensive stats than when Holiday was off.

Evans is not a good individual defender. And we need to be careful getting a ton of these good "team defenders" - JR, Korver, RJ, Love, etc. - and not having enough good individual defenders. But i think Evans's offense would be incredibly impactful on this team.
 
Start shump.
1. It improves his perceived value playing with lbj.
2. Simplifies his role from a back up pg to a 3&d.
3. Gives him his confidence back.
4. Limits him from ball handling duties.
5. Increases felder's playing time.

Starters:
Kyrie/shump/lbj/love/tt

Bench:
Felder/liggins/korver/rj/frye
 
I really think Evans is about the worst possible fit, even though I like him individually as a player.

Optimally, we want a PG who is above average in defense, passing, and 3PT shooting. Clearly, you're not going to get all of those, but you try to get what you can.

Evans is - in all three. His biggest + is his ability to finish near the rim, which is valuable -- but is exactly what we don't need with LBJ and KI already on the team. We want a guy who can drive to the rim and kick out to 3PT shooters - not a guy who can drive and finish (worse than KI/LBJ).

Evans is only a marginally better shooter than Rondo/Rubio -- and at least those two give you top-flight passing and defense.

On top of that, Evans is on an expiring contract, will want a pay-day this summer (which he will get because he's flashy), and has a degenerative knee.

Pass.
 
Chris Parker said:
I'm afraid I'd describe it as "not good". DFG% was like +7% last year. never been known for D. But a 39% 3pt shooter and 40% on catch & shoot.
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Are you thinking of someone else here?

Evans is a generally awful shooter.

Career 28.9% 3 PT shooter.

His catch and shoot 3PT stats (last 4 years):

2016-17: 2-10 (20%)
2015-16: 16-38 (42.1%)
2014-15: 43-121 (35.5%)
2013-14: 13-47 (27.7%)

Total: 74-216 (34.3%).

I hope his catch and shoot stats would not be why we want him, because his C&S numbers make Shump look good. The only good year was a really small sample size (38 total catch and shoot opportunities).

In general, I think the thought of Evans underscores my position. Evans just isn't any better than Shump to me and he's a worse defender. If that's the type of player we can get back, I just don't see why it makes any sense.
 
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Also, of people we know are being shopped: Brandon Knight > Tyreke Evans.

Younger, no injury history, better shooter, long term contract.

He's about the equivalent of Evans as a passer and defender (not great).

Not sure it's my first choice (Gay would be my first choice), but if you were looking for a scorer/backup PG he's a better option.
 
Lyuokdea said:
Also, of people we know are being shopped: Brandon Knight > Tyreke Evans.

Younger, no injury history, better shooter, long term contract.

He's about the equivalent of Evans as a passer and defender (not great).

Not sure it's my first choice (Gay would be my first choice), but if you were looking for a scorer/backup PG he's a better option.
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I agree Knight is better than Evans. he's also signed to a longer-term contract. People will surrender actual assets for a guy like that.

Evans, coming off an injury, in the last year of a contract, in my opinion, is closer to what you can expect to get back.

Knight will fetch more than Shumpert and Cedi osman, in my estimation.

And Evans is only a marginally better shooter than Rondo and Rubio is so laughably hyperbolic, it merits no response.

Why don't you post their shooting stats and imagine their spacing. sure looks like Evans ability improved each of the last three years, though with all of these things, sample size is always an issue. Why don't you post Shumpert's stats for the last three years on 3s as well.... (I'll get'em, hold on a sec)
 
My preference would be for them to add a good PG, but after thinking on it, it seems to make a lot of sense to me to play Evans with Liggins on second team, allowing Evans to take the playmaking responsiblities, while playing with a PG who really can't distribute. (That is, when Liggins not on floor w/Kyrie & LBJ, presumably, when Smith is back)

I must admit @I'mWithDan that Shumpert's two-point shooting is better than I thought, but my feeling is that his defense has slid considerably this year, and I felt his D was overrated to begin with. He doesn't contest but always goes for steals, yet over the last 15 games he's got .8 steals over 28 mpg. He has far too high an opinion of his playmaking abilities which lead to turnovers almost every game.

I feel enough confidence in Liggins to want to add a playmaker (rather than an athletic wing), but honestly, not super thrilled with Chalmers/Jack/Cole. Evans offers a way out of that imo.

Of course, if the team can land Deron Williams, maybe that's the way to go. (one yr contract $9M). But Evans is longer at least (6-6 v. 6-3) tho both are liabilities on D at this point.

 
The Oi said:
What the hell happened to Tyreke Evans' career?

Dude went 20/5/5 year one...
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He's got a terrible attitude, he's got an inconsistent jump-shot.

He can get to the rim, pass, and rebound well for his size. Injuries and attitude have really hampered his development.

He reminds me of Ricky Davis. I'd pass on Tyreke, and I would never trade Shumpert for him.

Even if he is better at running the second unit for 6 minutes a game, he's a terrible fit for every other aspect of the game and would be bad next to Kyrie and/or LeBron.

If we're signing a guy off the scrap heap and he can run a 2nd unit but can't play without the ball, that's one thing maybe worth taking a look at, but we can't trade a legit asset/young player for somebody like that.


By the way, Shumpert has been bad recently, yes, but he's still shooting 37% from 3 on the year. If you told me before the year started that we'd get even 35% from Shumpert, I would have taken it.

His defense has tailed off, but we know he's very capable of elite playoff defense. The entire team has been shitty defensively this year, and that's because I believe we've gone back to trying to implement Longabardi's more in-depth schemes and plus, it's the regular season and we're scoring a shitton of points.

If we have to again, we will do the same switch schematically we did last year. And of course our defensive intensity will increase exponentially the deeper we get into the playoffs. If those things happen, and Shump can give us 35-37% from beyond the arc, he's still going to be huge for us.
 
Such a spaz of a player. One play can make a difference between a comeback and turning the other way. Early in the 4th Cavs cut it to 9 and would have been 7 when RJ cut inside and found Shumpert in the lane. All he had to do was take a step in and get an easy layup yet he threw up some sort of runner that was nowhere close to going in.

Really frustating guy to watch as the previous play he hit a nice pull up jumper
 
rastamon87 said:
If we do trade Shump... I hope it is for a decent young defensive big... Our only defensive big is TT and he is not really tall...

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I would too, but there just aren't many in the league anymore, and the ones with enough mobility to play a scheme such as ours are generally well spoken for. I'd love a good rim protector with speed enough to challenge the 3, but very hard to acquire. Resigned to big-man flotsom like Kendrick Perkins.
 
Chris Parker said:
I would too, but there just aren't many in the league anymore, and the ones with enough mobility to play a scheme such as ours are generally well spoken for. I'd love a good rim protector with speed enough to challenge the 3, but very hard to acquire. Resigned to big-man flotsom like Kendrick Perkins.
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I think Koufos could be had for Shump. As much as I've defended Shump around here I think at this point I'd do that trade in a second.
 
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