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2017-2018 Boston Celtics: No Irving! No Hayward! No Brooklyn Pick!

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Regrade the finalized trade

  • A+

    Votes: 20 8.0%

  • A

    Votes: 70 27.9%

  • B

    Votes: 74 29.5%

  • C

    Votes: 39 15.5%

  • D

    Votes: 18 7.2%

  • F

    Votes: 30 12.0%
  • Total voters
    251
Also, Kyrie's PER post all star break is 29.5 and LeBron's is 29.6. Also, the two best offensive ratings in the league (for players who actually play) post all star break are LeBron and Kyrie.
 
Last edited:
Rob said:
Yeeeeeeeeeesh
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Just wanted to point something out..

Irving is posting these phenomenal stats without the benefit of getting calls from refs.

Kyrie pre-ASG FTr = .234
Kyrie post-ASG FTr = .287 (this is low relatively speaking)

Irving is getting nowhere NEAR the calls that Thomas, Harden, Wall, Westbrook and many many other PGs in the league are getting.

To give you an idea, Thomas has an FTr of .439; Westbrook .444; and Harden .588 (this is criminal).

When you account for shooting fouls drawn, you can see just how efficient Irving is at scoring when refs don't hand out "superstar calls." This is one of the many reasons Irving is often regarded as being so good in the playoffs -- because in the playoffs these calls are less of a factor. As an example, in last years playoffs, Westbrook drew a .356 FTr; whereas this season that's been bumped up to .588 (which really goes back to my point about the way in which free throws are called; statistically, one can infer that refs are controlling the pace and competitiveness of games by dishing out FTAs as a means of adjusting for certain factors).

tl;dr, The NBA giveth, and the NBA taketh away... but yes, Irving's stats are doubly impressive given he's not on the list of players that are getting the benefit of every whistle.
 
gourimoko said:
Just wanted to point something out..

Irving is posting these phenomenal stats without the benefit of getting calls from refs.

Kyrie pre-ASG FTr = .234
Kyrie post-ASG FTr = .287 (this is low relatively speaking)

Irving is getting nowhere NEAR the calls that Thomas, Harden, Wall, Westbrook and many many other PGs in the league are getting.

To give you an idea, Thomas has an FTr of .439; Westbrook .444; and Harden .588 (this is criminal).

When you account for shooting fouls drawn, you can see just how efficient Irving is at scoring when refs don't hand out "superstar calls." This is one of the many reasons Irving is often regarded as being so good in the playoffs -- because in the playoffs these calls are less of a factor. As an example, in last years playoffs, Westbrook drew a .356 FTr; whereas this season that's been bumped up to .588 (which really goes back to my point about the way in which free throws are called; statistically, one can infer that refs are controlling the pace and competitiveness of games by dishing out FTAs as a means of adjusting for certain factors).

tl;dr, The NBA giveth, and the NBA taketh away... but yes, Irving's stats are doubly impressive given he's not on the list of players that are getting the benefit of every whistle.
Click to expand...

And this is why Kyrie thrives more than those names when it matters. NBA can't taketh away from you when they don't giveth you much in the first place.
 
KI4MVP said:
Also, Kyrie's PER post all star break is 29.5 and LeBron's is 29.6. Also, the two best offensive ratings in the league (for players who actually play) post all star break are LeBron and Kyrie.
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They're just perfect for each other.
 
I just realized Kyrie rarely ever uses a floater. Crazy shit.
Oh and his shooting splits are friggin otherwordly. I think that if he were refd like any other elite point guard, his at the rim % would be far above .617 though.
 
CosmoKramer said:
No
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46 points on 21 shots could have been 0/21 FGs and 23+ trips to the line, assuming 2 shots per trip. That would have been slightly over 1 PPP, which isn't great efficiency. I know that 46 points on 21 shots is generally good basketball, but it isn't as surefire of a representation on efficiency like the other stats I mentioned are.
 
brownsbuck6 said:
And only emphasizes more why I despise Harden more than any player that doesn't reside in the Bay Area. He's obviously very good offensively but he's elevated himself to "MVP candidate" status based on learning to trick refs constantly.
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Can't wait to see this dude fold up like a British dinner napkin when the refs don't reward the flailing in the playoffs.
 
guitarlifter said:
46 points on 21 shots could have been 0/21 FGs and 23+ trips to the line, assuming 2 shots per trip. That would have been slightly over 1 PPP, which isn't great efficiency. I know that 46 points on 21 shots is generally good basketball, but it isn't as surefire of a representation on efficiency like the other stats I mentioned are.
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That's just stupid, no one in NBA history has ever scored more than 15 points in a game without making a single field goal.

I don't need the TS% or points per shot to know scoring 46 points on 21 shots is insane efficiency. That's just over analyzing something pretty simple and already impressive.
 
guitarlifter said:
46 points on 21 shots could have been 0/21 FGs and 23+ trips to the line, assuming 2 shots per trip. That would have been slightly over 1 PPP, which isn't great efficiency. I know that 46 points on 21 shots is generally good basketball, but it isn't as surefire of a representation on efficiency like the other stats I mentioned are.
Click to expand...

Yeah cuz the refs have sent Kyrie to the foul line SO MUCH this season :chuckle:
 
FrontPageNews said:
I wish kyrie was as defensive as the people are who defend him.
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vXBCyYz.gif
 
Kyrie's points per game now stand at 25.5 for the season on 47.5/39.3/90.5 splits and 5.8 assists to 2.6 turnovers.

If anyone had told you before the season that we'd be in March and Ky would be averaging 26 points and 6 assists on his most efficient offensive production of his career, we'd be asking if he were in MVP talks. But, he plays with LeBron who still the best player in the league by a wide margin (imo) and these other few players are putting up insane boxscores as well.

...but, how much longer can this Kyrie thing go unnoticed nationally? He's been playing the best, most consistent regular season basketball of his career all season, and most specifically since mid-January (26 games).

Here are his averages in those 26:
28 points on 49% FG, 38% 3PT, 92% FT
6.1 assists
3.1 rebounds
1.2 steals
60% TS
120 OffRtg
56% eFG
in 35.5 minutes


And, just to track what still could potentially be a historical statistical "changing of the guard" if you will, Kyrie still has a legitimate chance to be the Cavs' leading scorer for the season.

As of this moment:
LeBron James: 26.2 points per game (18.0 shots, 7.1 FTAs)
Kyrie Irving: 25.5 points per game (19.8 FGAs, 4.6 FTAs)

Heady stuff for the young fella.





In terms of officiating and the lack of free throw attempts, I feel the time has come for someone either in the front office, coaching staff, a teammate, media member ... someone with some clout that can bring to light the unfairness of the way this man is officiated.

He had 10 free throws last night (2 of which were intentional at the end) and he could really have 8-12 FTAs every night based on how other guys are called. He doesn't flop and he won't sacrifice his balance/odds of hitting a shot to sell a call, but that makes his case even more egregious and easier to plead to the league office.

I just hope back-channels are being worked and think it is time to take it to the front channels. He is one of the most lethal attacking guards in the NBA where he is often hit and banged, guys ride up on him when he pulls up midrange, and he gets his jersey grabbed all the time in P&R situations. I don't even want to get into the hits he takes in transition that almost literally never result in free throws.

If it was called this way across the league I'd have no problem with it, because it obviously doesn't slow Kyrie down too much. But this guy could realistically be averaging 28-30 points a night if he got the benefit of the whistle like most star players do.

To piggyback on @gourimoko excellent breakdown above, there are just 9 other players in the NBA that have a usage rate of 30.0 or greater and have played over 2,000 minutes this season (which translates to roughly 33-37 minutes nightly).

Kyrie Irving has a usage rate of 30.9 (9th in NBA) and averages 35.1 minutes (15th in NBA).

Here is how using that much of the offense corresponds with free throws. Notice that there is literally one exception and the rest follow a pretty even formula.


Players ranked according to usage rate:

Russ Westbrook - 35 min, 41.9% usage, 10.7 FTAs
DeMarcus Cousins - 34.0 min, 36.6%, 9.3 FTAs
James Harden - 36.5 min, 34.3%, 11.0 FTAs
Isaiah Thomas - 34.1 min, 34.1%, 8.6 FTAs
DeMar Derozan - 35.2 min, 33.9%, 8.5 FTAs
Anthony Davis - 36.1 min, 32.6%, 8.9 FTAs
Damian Lillard - 36.0 min, 31.4%, 7.2 FTAs
Kawhi Leonard - 33.7 min, 31.3%, 7.6 FTAs
Kyrie Irving - 35.1 min, 30.9%, 4.6 FTAs
John Wall - 36.8 min, 30.5%, 6.7 FTAs
LeBron James - 37.6 min, 30.0%, 7.1 FTAs


Key
Flopper Central - Play for Whistles first, baskets second
Officials Respect - Star players who work for their FTs; star players who get calls
No Respect - My only conclusion has to be that the officials do not like/respect Irving; there is only one player in this class
 
Last edited:
RedBlackAttack said:
Kyrie's points per game now stand at 25.5 for the season on 47.5/39.3/90.5 splits and 5.8 assists to 2.6 turnovers.

If anyone had told you before the season that we'd be in March and Ky would be averaging 26 points and 6 assists on his most efficient offensive production of his career, we'd be asking if he were in MVP talks. But, he plays with LeBron who still the best player in the league by a wide margin (imo) and these other few players are putting up insane boxscores as well.

...but, how much longer can this Kyrie thing go unnoticed nationally? He's been playing the best, most consistent regular season basketball of his career all season, and most specifically since mid-January (26 games).

Here are his averages in those 26:
28 points on 49% FG, 38% 3PT, 92% FT
6.1 assists
3.1 rebounds
1.2 steals
60% TS
120 OffRtg
56% eFG
in 35.5 minutes


And, just to track what still could potentially be a historical statistical "changing of the guard" if you will, Kyrie still has a legitimate chance to be the Cavs' leading scorer for the season.

As of this moment:
LeBron James: 26.2 points per game (18.0 shots, 7.1 FTAs)
Kyrie Irving: 25.5 points per game (19.8 FGAs, 4.6 FTAs)

Heady stuff for the young fella.





In terms of officiating and the lack of free throw attempts, I feel the time has come for someone either in the front office, coaching staff, a teammate, media member ... someone with some clout that can bring to light the unfairness of the way this man is officiated.

He had 10 free throws last night (2 of which were intentional at the end) and he could really have 8-12 FTAs every night based on how other guys are called. He doesn't flop and he won't sacrifice his balance/odds of hitting a shot to sell a call, but that makes his case even more egregious and easier to plead to the league office.

I just hope back-channels are being worked and think it is time to take it to the front channels. He is one of the most lethal attacking guards in the NBA where he is often hit and banged, guys ride up on him when he pulls up midrange, and he gets his jersey grabbed all the time in P&R situations. I don't even want to get into the hits he takes in transition that almost literally never result in free throws.

If it was called this way across the league I'd have no problem with it, because it obviously doesn't slow Kyrie down too much. But this guy could realistically be averaging 28-30 points a night if he got the benefit of the whistle like most star players do.

To piggyback on @gourimoko excellent breakdown above, there are just 9 other players in the NBA that have a usage rate of 30.0 or greater and have played over 2,000 minutes this season (which translates to roughly 33-37 minutes nightly).

Kyrie Irving has a usage rate of 30.9 (9th in NBA) and averages 35.1 minutes (15th in NBA).

Here is how using that much of the offense corresponds with free throws. Notice that there is literally one exception and the rest follow a pretty even formula.


Players ranked according to usage rate:

Russ Westbrook - 35 min, 41.9% usage, 10.7 FTAs
DeMarcus Cousins - 34.0 min, 36.6%, 9.3 FTAs
James Harden - 36.5 min, 34.3%, 11.0 FTAs
Isaiah Thomas - 34.1 min, 34.1%, 8.6 FTAs
DeMar Derozan - 35.2 min, 33.9%, 8.5 FTAs
Anthony Davis - 36.1 min, 32.6%, 8.9 FTAs
Damian Lillard - 36.0 min, 31.4%, 7.2 FTAs
Kawhi Leonard - 33.7 min, 31.3%, 7.6 FTAs
Kyrie Irving - 35.1 min, 30.9%, 4.6 FTAs
John Wall - 36.8 min, 30.5%, 6.7 FTAs
LeBron James - 37.6 min, 30.0%, 7.1 FTAs


Key
Flopper Central - Play for Whistles first, baskets second
Officials Respect - Star players who work for their FTs; star players who get calls
No Respect - My only conclusion has to be that the officials do not like/respect Irving; there is only one player in this class
Click to expand...
Somebody call Pawn Stars, Melville's lost manuscript has finally turned up.
 
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