So long, David Griffin

My problem with Griffin is that too often with him the perfect is the enemy of the good. He didn't sign a stopgap backup center because none out there, in his opinion, was ideal. He was fascinated with Sanders (which never seemed a plausible or good option to me) with his vision that he could both defend the rim and guard on the perimeter and switch off on pick and roll defense.

Before that, he held out for Bogut (whom he anticipated, correctly, would be a waiver candidate), but he also more than once admitted it took him too long to bring in reinforcements. Really, what the team needed was someone who could do traditional big man things -- defensive rebound and provide some modicum of interior defense, things that Channing Frye cannot do -- and save some wear and tear on Tristan. Could have been Tavares, could have been another guy.

You can say Griff didn't do this due to the tax implications, and I'm sure that has been a factor, but tax concerns didn't stop him from guaranteeing Jordan McRae's salary at the January deadline, when many of us on RCF were calling for him to be waived and replaced with either a PG or center. That move still makes no sense to me. There was plentiful evidence by then that the 25 year old McRae couldn't contribute to a good team.

Sumac13 said:

Random thought here: I wonder how much Griffin's emphasis on offensive carries over from his experience with the Sun's under the D'Antoni era. Offensively great. Defensively offensive.

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FWIW Griffin is on record saying he didn't think those Phoenix Suns teams were inferior [or any less talented] than the Popp Spurs teams that repeatedly eliminated Phoenix.

Jscc said:

FWIW Griffin is on record saying he didn't think those Phoenix Suns teams were inferior [or any less talented] than the Popp Spurs teams that repeatedly eliminated Phoenix.

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It took some miracle shots for the spurs to beat that team though like Duncans game tying 3.

Jscc said:

FWIW Griffin is on record saying he didn't think those Phoenix Suns teams were inferior [or any less talented] than the Popp Spurs teams that repeatedly eliminated Phoenix.

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PinkFlame said:

It took some miracle shots for the spurs to beat that team though like Duncans game tying 3.

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I still wonder how that 07 Cavs team would have done vs. Phoenix..

Still probably won't win. However, they wouldn't have stopped LeBron.

kovanovich said:

My problem with Griffin is that too often with him the perfect is the enemy of the good. He didn't sign a stopgap backup center because none out there, in his opinion, was ideal. He was fascinated with Sanders (which never seemed a plausible or good option to me) with his vision that he could both defend the rim and guard on the perimeter and switch off on pick and roll defense.

Before that, he held out for Bogut (whom he anticipated, correctly, would be a waiver candidate), but he also more than once admitted it took him too long to bring in reinforcements. Really, what the team needed was someone who could do traditional big man things -- defensive rebound and provide some modicum of interior defense, things that Channing Frye cannot do -- and save some wear and tear on Tristan. Could have been Tavares, could have been another guy.

You can say Griff didn't do this due to the tax implications, and I'm sure that has been a factor, but tax concerns didn't stop him from guaranteeing Jordan McRae's salary at the January deadline, when many of us on RCF were calling for him to be waived and replaced with either a PG or center. That move still makes no sense to me. There was plentiful evidence by then that the 25 year old McRae couldn't contribute to a good team.

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He was Kyries best friend. Griff wanted Kyrie to be happy.

Nphan said:

He was Kyries best friend. Griff wanted Kyrie to be happy.

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And he ended up waiving him anyway. I think Griff must have known by early January that he'd likely need McRae's roster spot. I think that Griff values roster stability, but that hasn't stopped there being (I have heard) 22 different players on the team this year. The Cavs' players are veterans, and they know it's a business, and the end of the roster often experiences some turnover and tweaking over the course of a season.

I don't know how we could make the great Korver deal and pick up both ideal free agents midseason (Bogut and Williams) along with some surprising contributions from Derrick and even a tryout for everybody's wet dream Larry Sanders and then talk shit on Griff. I'm not sure what else he could have done to improve this roster.

Also, keep in mind we had TWO dead roster spots that he cleared up along the way.

-Akronite- said:

I don't know how we could make the great Korver deal and pick up both ideal free agents midseason (Bogut and Williams) along with some surprising contributions from Derrick and even a tryout for everybody's wet dream Larry Sanders and then talk shit on Griff. I'm not sure what else he could have done to improve this roster.

Also, keep in mind we had TWO dead roster spots that he cleared up along the way.

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I'm not taking a side but argument would be that Bogut & Williams decided of their own accord, and, in truth, as the last chance to add reinforcements were sort of a hail mary. You'd want your front office to have your two main issues solved before the last moment to add new players and have them be eligible. With Bogut, it could be argued, that VERY THINKING is what bit Cavs in ass, when the Aussie immediately needed to be taken behind the barn and shot. Derrick was a savvy play, because Griff was about to sign someone else, but now that he never leaves the bench, how much difference was that move.

Which leaves you with Korver, who replaced a guy that Griffin signed that apparently sucked. So that's a great move.... to replace an off-season mistake, and it only cost your only remaining tradeable 1st round pick. Groovy.

Not sure how he gets a pass on the two dead spots all season, but many let the blame be passed off to Gilbert, which is awfully convenient or adding that living corpse of the Birdman who so amazingly came up lame. Who woulda thunk that?

Any board is going to have a strong element of homerism. It might preclude Griffin receiving legit crit, esp. after he (with big ups from LBJ & Ky) brought home a championship.

Chris Parker said:

It might preclude Griffin receiving legit crit, esp. after he (with big ups from LBJ & Ky) brought home a championship.

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It's tough to separate the job Griff did from the unprecedented assets he was given with which to do the job: 1) the best player in the NBA wanting to play for his team; 2) An absolute horde of draft picks; 3)An owner willing to spend more than any other owner in the league.

The moves for which I most fault Griff, and which are entirely on him, are 1) the huge extension he gave to Lue, 2) failing to sign Delly while overpaying for Shump.

I admittedly am not the X's and O's guy as are some others here. But I've been actively watching the NBA for more than 40 years, and know a few things. And one of those few things I know is that glue guys really matter. Delly was the guy who always busted his ass, both on the court and in practice. And after he went to the hospital after Game 4....how do you not re-sign that guy for $4-5M/year? Even if only to embarrass other guys when they aren't busting their ass.

That one's going to bug me for a long time. I just cannot figure it out because it seems so damn obvious to me. We had a guy who put himself in the hospital because he absolutely gave it everything he had. Then we paid him on the cheap with a qualifying offer.

The Human Q-Tip said:

It's tough to separate the job Griff did from the unprecedented assets he was given with which to do the job: 1) the best player in the NBA wanting to play for his team; 2) An absolute horde of draft picks; 3)An owner willing to spend more than any other owner in the league.

The moves for which I most fault Griff, and which are entirely on him, are 1) the huge extension he gave to Lue, 2) failing to sign Delly while overpaying for Shump.

I admittedly am not the X's and O's guy as are some others here. But I've been actively watching the NBA for more than 40 years, and know a few things. And one of those few things I know is that glue guys really matter. Delly was the guy who always busted his ass, both on the court and in practice. And after he went to the hospital after Game 4....how do you not re-sign that guy for $4-5M/year? Even if only to embarrass other guys when they aren't busting their ass.

That one's going to bug me for a long time. I just cannot figure it out because it seems so damn obvious to me. We had a guy who put himself in the hospital because he absolutely gave it everything he had. Then we paid him on the cheap with a qualifying offer.

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You're upset and bugged out over losing Delly? The same guy that didn't see meaningful minutes on the floor in the finals? That's what keeps you up at night about Griff? C'mon man.

Delly got paid 9.5 per, not 4.5 btw. That's a massive overpay. Shump meanwhile is a moveable asset getting paid similar dollars. He is in his mid 20's and is established as a 3 pt shooter and defender in this league. You can't say the same for Delly. Delly is an effort guy. Love Delly, not at 9.5 mil. Hindsight being what it is? Probably not Shump at that price. But you have to consider the replacement level player if we don't retain Shump. We don't retain Shump where are we going to find a 2 guard like him? I think it was the right move at the time to retain. Meanwhile we let Delly go and fall into D-Will. We can argue whether that's a net gain or a net loss, but meh.

Look - if your bone to pick with Griiff is over Delly and Shump, Griff has done a fantastic job as GM.

Shakezoula said:

You're upset and bugged out over losing Delly? The same guy that didn't see meaningful minutes on the floor in the finals? That's what keeps you up at night about Griff? C'mon man.

Delly got paid 9.5 per, not 4.5 btw. That's a massive overpay. Shump meanwhile is a moveable asset getting paid similar dollars. He is in his mid 20's and is established as a 3 pt shooter and defender in this league. You can't say the same for Delly. Delly is an effort guy. Love Delly, not at 9.5 mil. Hindsight being what it is? Probably not Shump at that price. But you have to consider the replacement level player if we don't retain Shump. We don't retain Shump where are we going to find a 2 guard like him? I think it was the right move at the time to retain. Meanwhile we let Delly go and fall into D-Will. We can argue whether that's a net gain or a net loss, but meh.

Look - if your bone to pick with Griiff is over Delly and Shump, Griff has done a fantastic job as GM.

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Shump is a moveable asset like Trump is a moveable asset for the GOP. Could you move him? Sure, but not without a lot of blood, sweat, tears, torturous media coverage, and a whole lot of people upset about the ROI.

Shakezoula said:

The same guy that didn't see meaningful minutes on the floor in the finals?

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Delly saw meaningful minutes all season and in the early rounds before his injury. He allowed Kyrie to convalesce thoroughly so that he was able to be that playoff monster we needed to win the title.

Shakezoula said:

Delly got paid 9.5 per, not 4.5 btw.

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It was widely reported in the 2015 offseason that Delly's camp was seeking a 3-5/per deal, but Griffin hardballed the guy. Everybody knew that the QO would come to bite us in the ass as Delly's phenomenal play from the Finals carried over into the regular season.

I understand that Griffin was operating under financial constraints due to Gilbert shelling out an unprecedented amount of money that summer, but to not lock Delly up for what was essentially pennies on the dollar was incredibly shortsighted and his biggest gaff as a GM.

Shakezoula said:

You're upset and bugged out over losing Delly? The same guy that didn't see meaningful minutes on the floor in the finals? That's what keeps you up at night about Griff? C'mon man.

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Yes. And you're employing hindsight. Delly was hurt for the 2016 Finals -- there is no way Griffin knew that was going to happen when he made the decision not to extend Delly after the 2015 Finals.

Delly got paid 9.5 per, not 4.5 btw. That's a massive overpay.

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It's been pretty widely reported that the Cavs could have signed Delly for around $4.5M after the 2015 Finals. He still had a year under contract as an RFA at that point, so it was a good time to get him on the cheap long-term. When he was an FA in 2016, and the cap jumped through the roof, he (predictably) got overpaid.

Shump meanwhile is a moveable asset getting paid similar dollars. He is in his mid 20's and is established as a 3 pt shooter and defender in this league. You can't say the same for Delly.

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When they both played with the exact same teammate, in 2014-15, Shump shot 33.8% from 3. Delly shot 40.1%. In 2015-16, Shump shot 29.5%, and Delly shot 41.0%. One of those guys is a three point threat on offense, and one isn't. And Delly is actually younger, btw.

As for Shump being a "moveable asset"....we'd have to toss in a draft pick to get anyone to take him at this point. And we probably couldn't trade him straight up for Delly if we tried. More importantly, though, it shouldn't have been an either/or anyone. Delly could have been signed to a very reasonable contract at the end of 2015 regardless of what we did with Shump.

Chris Parker said:

I'm not taking a side but argument would be that Bogut & Williams decided of their own accord, and, in truth, as the last chance to add reinforcements were sort of a hail mary. You'd want your front office to have your two main issues solved before the last moment to add new players and have them be eligible. With Bogut, it could be argued, that VERY THINKING is what bit Cavs in ass, when the Aussie immediately needed to be taken behind the barn and shot. Derrick was a savvy play, because Griff was about to sign someone else, but now that he never leaves the bench, how much difference was that move.

Which leaves you with Korver, who replaced a guy that Griffin signed that apparently sucked. So that's a great move.... to replace an off-season mistake, and it only cost your only remaining tradeable 1st round pick. Groovy.

Not sure how he gets a pass on the two dead spots all season, but many let the blame be passed off to Gilbert, which is awfully convenient or adding that living corpse of the Birdman who so amazingly came up lame. Who woulda thunk that?

Any board is going to have a strong element of homerism. It might preclude Griffin receiving legit crit, esp. after he (with big ups from LBJ & Ky) brought home a championship.

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Not taking a side? LOL. When did Griffin sleep with your old lady?

I see the Delly lovers are out. I get it. He's white, he's gritty, he's a blue collar guy! Everyone loves a gritty white guy. It's been almost a full year guys it's time to take your goggles off.

Playoff Injury? What is this rewriting of history by you guys? You mean when he rolled his ankle?

As for his contract (re: 2015) - yeeesh, talk about living in the past. They had the guy locked up for cheap (cheap cheap) for another year while they're paying out their ass in luxury tax. You can excuse the Cavs for not wanting toss out an extra few million per year (+ a few mil in luxry) for a long term deal for a guy that had done nothing outside of be a servicable back up. Delly - thanks for playing big minutes in the finals when we had no one else, you don't get gifted a contract just for that.

You may say Shump isn't moveable, I'm saying there will always be a market for an Iman Shumpert player in the NBA. Young, reasonably priced, athletic, 3&d.

I'm just shocked you guys are still talking about Delly...

Couldn't ask for more from Griff. Grabbed Korver, D-Will 1&2, Bogut, Sanders, Walter. Tried out anyone for backup point that put shorts on! He's put us in position with an improved roster to try and win another. Can't ask for anything more of your GM. 10/10 would bang and re-sign