Chief Wahoo Discussion

Asking diplomatically.. Why is this not equivalent to the fighting Irish?

Like it or not, they've given unsatisfactory answers to that already.

Chris said:

Like it or not, they've given unsatisfactory answers to that already.

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At the time I read them I was like, oh sure, sounds right. But i do not detect any observable difference. And I can't find the explanation. Lol.

Just saying, I'm Irish and I couldn't give a flying fuck about a vituperative midget with red hair and a pipe being a mascot for the team called the fighting Irish. But i guess that isn't necessary to substantiate outrage of people who are out to obviate racism.

The Wizard of Moz said:

It's pretty disproportionately white liberals who give a shit about chief wahoo being gone

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Yeah, because we killed most of the Native Americans

David. said:

Asking diplomatically.. Why is this not equivalent to the fighting Irish?

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I'm not aware of any negative stereotypes being depicted via the fighting Irish logo, but I haven't looked into it much. With Wahoo, they're there.

My biggest issue has always been with the name because a native American isn't an Indian...

I'm of the belief that if they had rebranded to the Tribe and cut down on Wahoo starting a few years ago, we wouldn't have had MLB force their hand.

David. said:

Asking diplomatically.. Why is this not equivalent to the fighting Irish?

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Because the Fighting Irish is a mascot developed, and used by an Irish Catholic University.

If a High School on a Navajo reservation chose to be the Fighting Navajo, nobody would care.

D-Wreck said:

Because the Fighting Irish is a mascot developed, and used by an Irish Catholic University.

If a High School on a Navajo reservation chose to be the Fighting Navajo, nobody would care.

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My only issue with this argument is that Notre Dame does not speak on the entire Irish communities behalf. Just like the Seminole tribe leaders that have given approval to Florida State, I guarantee there are still plenty of Seminoles out there that take offensive to the name, logo, mascot, chants, etc. If the logo/name is offensive, it is offensive. It doesn't become less offensive just because it gets a stamp of approval by the leaders of their tribe. If it were that easy, all the Indians would have to do is pay off some random ass tribe to say they approve.

It has already been stated numerous times that there are leaders of certain tribes that have vocally supported the Indians and Redskins names. But just because some approve of these logos and names, that doesn't mean it is automatically a non-issue. If there are certain individuals of the Irish community that finds the logo offensive, you can't discount what they have to say. It is no different than any of the Native logos.

selby56 said:

My only issue with this argument is that Notre Dame does not speak on the entire Irish communities behalf. Just like the Seminole tribe leaders that have given approval to Florida State, I guarantee there are still plenty of Seminoles out there that take offensive to the name, logo, mascot, chants, etc. If the logo/name is offensive, it is offensive. It doesn't become less offensive just because it gets a stamp of approval by the leaders of their tribe. If it were that easy, all the Indians would have to do is pay off some random ass tribe to say they approve.

It has already been stated numerous times that there are leaders of certain tribes that have vocally supported the Indians and Redskins names. But just because some approve of these logos and names, that doesn't mean it is automatically a non-issue. If there are certain individuals of the Irish community that finds the logo offensive, you can't discount what they have to say. It is no different than any of the Native logos.

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It's very different. Completely different universes. Not sure how you're not seeing that.

You're all a bunch of idiots.

AZ_ said:

Yeah, because we killed most of the Native Americans

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So you feel guilty about something that happened a century ago because you share the same skin color? Are you out passing reparations to others as well?

That's pretty sad. That's what David is talking about. Silly white guilt and it holds no water.

Lord Mar said:

So you feel guilty about something that happened a century ago because you share the same skin color? Are you out passing reparations to others as well?

That's pretty sad. That's what David is talking about. Silly white guilt and it holds no water.

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We should all feel guilty as Americans that we slaughtered an entire race of people while preaching morality to the rest of the world, but that has nothing to do with the Cleveland Indians.

It's just the simple answer for why you're not seeing more protesters.

They should remove the logo because it's obviously racist and outdated.

D-Wreck said:

It's very different. Completely different universes. Not sure how you're not seeing that.

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How so? My point is if you were to poll all the Seminoles, I guarantee you'd find many that don't approve of the name and the goofy chants they do at Florida State games. But the Seminole tribe leaders have given Florida State the okay. Does that mean the logo and chants are suddenly not offensive anymore? Those people that take offense are just bitching for nothing?

I honestly don't give a shit and would prefer to keep Wahoo, but I understand he will be gone soon. I'm just playing devils advocate here.

AZ_ said:

We should all feel guilty as Americans that we slaughtered an entire race of people while preaching morality to the rest of the world, but that has nothing to do with the Cleveland Indians.

It's just the simple answer for why you're not seeing more protesters.

They should remove the logo because it's obviously racist and outdated.

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I feel ZERO guilt. I was born here - it wasn't my choice to live here. ZERO GUILT. I, nor my family, had nothing to do with any slaughtering. I'm not sure where the correlation lies - the white skin? The fact I was born here and have stayed here?

Keeping the logo does more for honoring the Indians (Native Americans, whatever) than white-washing it from the history books like they want to do.

The jig is up, bub. It's not racist. You choose to see it as racist, and yes I choose to see it as what it is - a caricature and a logo of a sports team that isn't racist unless I choose to say it is if I'd like to step up and be a special interest group mouthpiece - but it's not.

D-Wreck said:

It's very different. Completely different universes. Not sure how you're not seeing that.

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You can rate my post whatever you wish. Still doesn't answer my question. Why do the Florida Seminole tribal leaders get to speak on behalf of all Seminoles, including the ones in Oklahoma that have openly been against Florida States name?

https://www.thenation.com/article/florida-state-seminoles-champions-racist-mascots/

The agreement is with the Florida Seminole Tribal Council and not the Seminole Nation. The majority of Seminoles don’t even live in Florida. They live in Oklahoma, one of the fruits of the Seminole Wars, the Indian Removal Act and The Trail of Tears. These Oklahoma Seminoles—who, remember, are the majority—oppose the name. On October 26, 2013, the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma’s governing body passed a resolution that read in part, “The Seminole Nation condemns the use of all American Indian sports team mascots in the public school system, by college and university level and by professional teams.”

Lord Mar said:

I feel ZERO guilt. I was born here - it wasn't my choice to live here. ZERO GUILT. I, nor my family, had nothing to do with any slaughtering. I'm not sure where the correlation lies - the white skin? The fact I was born here and have stayed here?

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Do you feel pride in this country? I love America and certainly feel pride in the great accomplishments of this country. I love and feel pride in my home state of Ohio too. I root for sports teams that I don't really have anything to do with.

I don't necessarily feel guilt for the genocide of Native Americans, because yeah I didn't do that myself. But it is a part of our history that I take into account rather than just going welp not my problem.

Keeping the logo does more for honoring the Indians (Native Americans, whatever) than white-washing it from the history books like they want to do.

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In what way does this honor anybody? That's such a bullshit argument.

The jig is up, bub. It's not racist. You choose to see it as racist, and yes I choose to see it as what it is - a caricature and a logo of a sports team that isn't racist unless I choose to say it is if I'd like to step up and be a special interest group mouthpiece - but it's not.

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Would everyone please stop declaring victory like we're in fucking middle school. Jesus, Orange and now this. Grow up.

Plugging your ears and yelling "IT'S NOT RACIST UNLESS I SAY SO" isn't convincing in the least.