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Chief Wahoo Discussion

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Should Chief Wahoo Go?


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It's been gradual for several years now. Maybe a bit accelerated this season, but I'm not sure they ever intended to remove the logo completely until Manfred stepped-in.

This thread comes back alive every-time someone pens an opinion. That's all.

I see a TON of wahoo gear at the games. When it's all fazed out, we'll still see it. I doubt the new generation of fans will be out in full-force supporting the team with their block C or whatever new name/logo they sport in a few years. Well...maybe 10,000 may be there every night to support.....
 
I see a TON of wahoo gear at the games. When it's all fazed out, we'll still see it. I doubt the new generation of fans will be out in full-force supporting the team with their block C or whatever new name/logo they sport in a few years. Well...maybe 10,000 may be there every night to support.....

Good for them.

The team should not stand by it any longer, nor should the league.

Once again, glad they're taking the overdue step of doing so.
 
Interesting the fan attendance is garbage even after a WS run and huge free agent signing.

Also happened during the time they are phasing out local hero Chief Wahoo

Perhaps 2+2 does indeed equal 4... but just perhaps...
 
Good for them.

The team should not stand by it any longer, nor should the league.

Once again, glad they're taking the overdue step of doing so.

So when 5k of the 10k fans that show up to a 5:27pm start in 2020......the team should take a stand and condemn them? What's the plan, man?
 
Wait, so a racial caricature is no big deal compared to the eradication of natives while getting rid of Wahoo is equivalent? :chuckle:

Seriously though, of course the genocide of natives is worse than a cartoon, but how the fuck is that relevant. Still waiting for someone to explain the difference between Wahoo and Sambo. Please explain why one is racist and the other is not.

Chief_Wahoo2.jpg

In a completely benign fashion (I'm trying to play a little devil's advocate, so try to bear with), can you describe to me what features of the sambo face are offensive? I'm not against wahoo removal, but as a white guy, I don't look at the sambo photo and see glaring racial overtones to the make-up of the face. It's probably because I can't identify with those offended, but I'd rather it be explained. I completely understand and sympathize with the thought that folks just don't want their whole heritage to be a mascot, or one individual within the culture to be the representative. I'm just very interested to hear from someone offended by it what is so offensive about this guy above. Again, just questioning for discussion & my own curiosity; I've been shown old sambo cartoons (which are jaw-dropping) so I'm not at all trying to say sambo isn't racist. Just curious to know more.
 
I see a TON of wahoo gear at the games. When it's all fazed out, we'll still see it. I doubt the new generation of fans will be out in full-force supporting the team with their block C or whatever new name/logo they sport in a few years. Well...maybe 10,000 may be there every night to support.....

I wasn't speaking on the fans. Sorry if that's what it sounded like. I was speaking of the organization & how they go about designing the ballpark/jerseys.
 
So when 5k of the 10k fans that show up to a 5:27pm start in 2020......the team should take a stand and condemn them? What's the plan, man?

Not my concern, or the team's.

So long as they're no longer going to officially endorse it or have the league endorse it, I'm good.
 
Not my concern, or the team's.

So long as they're no longer going to officially endorse it or have the league endorse it, I'm good.

So it's sorta like that whole "now smoking is bad" thing. Time to capitalize on nicorette, I guess.
 
In a completely benign fashion (I'm trying to play a little devil's advocate, so try to bear with), can you describe to me what features of the sambo face are offensive? I'm not against wahoo removal, but as a white guy, I don't look at the sambo photo and see glaring racial overtones to the make-up of the face. It's probably because I can't identify with those offended, but I'd rather it be explained. I completely understand and sympathize with the thought that folks just don't want their whole heritage to be a mascot, or one individual within the culture to be the representative. I'm just very interested to hear from someone offended by it what is so offensive about this guy above. Again, just questioning for discussion & my own curiosity; I've been shown old sambo cartoons (which are jaw-dropping) so I'm not at all trying to say sambo isn't racist. Just curious to know more.

In terms of the cartoon itself, the main issue is the exaggerated features. The black-dark skin with the big grinning mouth creates this happy-go-lucky caricature of black people. Much like the portrayal of a happy slave in "Song of the South," this is clearly a racist hijacking of black identity.

Contextually it is horrific. White people made this cartoon to laugh at black people. Similar characters were acted out in black face. They were playing stereotypes to make fun of blacks. They didn't make the character mean or aggressive, so they could play it off as if it wasn't a harmful representation. But it is essentially a symbol of oppression. We have not only enslaved your people and dominated your livelihood and civil rights, we also get to choose how the world sees you. As a joke.

Wahoo isn't really much different. The United States did awful things to Native Americans and then decided it'd be fun to use their race as a cartoonish mascot for their teams, along with costumes and makeup and chants. Let's have fun at the expense of Indians because it's just fun and no one is being harmed, right? It's archaic and racist. As I've stated multiple times, I am not really holding anything against those attached to the logo or name. I get it (to an extent). You grew up with it. The name Cleveland Indians just sounds right, even to me. And hell, I personally LOVE the look of Wahoo as a logo. But I look passed that to the context of what it represents and it makes me embarrassed for the team and the city.

Wahoo wasn't created to harm Indians, but I don't think sambo was intended for harm either. That's really beside the point of what's wrong with them. The intent came from a place of ignorance and dealt harm anyway.

And this is without me reaching out for some article that probably goes much deeper on the issue and describes the problem more eloquently.
 
In terms of the cartoon itself, the main issue is the exaggerated features. The black-dark skin with the big grinning mouth creates this happy-go-lucky caricature of black people. Much like the portrayal of a happy slave in "Song of the South," this is clearly a racist hijacking of black identity.

Contextually it is horrific. White people made this cartoon to laugh at black people. Similar characters were acted out in black face. They were playing stereotypes to make fun of blacks. They didn't make the character mean or aggressive, so they could play it off as if it wasn't a harmful representation. But it is essentially a symbol of oppression. We have not only enslaved your people and dominated your livelihood and civil rights, we also get to choose how the world sees you. As a joke.

Wahoo isn't really much different. The United States did awful things to Native Americans and then decided it'd be fun to use their race as a cartoonish mascot for their teams, along with costumes and makeup and chants. Let's have fun at the expense of Indians because it's just fun and no one is being harmed, right? It's archaic and racist. As I've stated multiple times, I am not really holding anything against those attached to the logo or name. I get it (to an extent). You grew up with it. The name Cleveland Indians just sounds right, even to me. And hell, I personally LOVE the look of Wahoo as a logo. But I look passed that to the context of what it represents and it makes me embarrassed for the team and the city.

Wahoo wasn't created to harm Indians, but I don't think sambo was intended for harm either. That's really beside the point of what's wrong with them. The intent came from a place of ignorance and dealt harm anyway.

And this is without me reaching out for some article that probably goes much deeper on the issue and describes the problem more eloquently.

Interesting. I'd have to research, but I think it's safe to assume sambo was born with a much more sinister purpose. Now, that's not really much to say because I don't think the purpose is salient; if the logo is racist, it's racist; regardless of intent. Just an observation.

I, too, love and have loved Chief Wahoo growing up. That said, I'm not willing to fight the phasing of it out and won't be mad about it when it's done.
 
Interesting. I'd have to research, but I think it's safe to assume sambo was born with a much more sinister purpose. Now, that's not really much to say because I don't think the purpose is salient; if the logo is racist, it's racist; regardless of intent. Just an observation.

I, too, love and have loved Chief Wahoo growing up. That said, I'm not willing to fight the phasing of it out and won't be mad about it when it's done.

From a quick Wiki search, it began as a children's book and proliferated from there. It didn't get much real flack until after Langston Hughes was like "fuck that shit."
 
In terms of the cartoon itself, the main issue is the exaggerated features. The black-dark skin with the big grinning mouth creates this happy-go-lucky caricature of black people. Much like the portrayal of a happy slave in "Song of the South," this is clearly a racist hijacking of black identity.

Contextually it is horrific. White people made this cartoon to laugh at black people. Similar characters were acted out in black face. They were playing stereotypes to make fun of blacks. They didn't make the character mean or aggressive, so they could play it off as if it wasn't a harmful representation. But it is essentially a symbol of oppression. We have not only enslaved your people and dominated your livelihood and civil rights, we also get to choose how the world sees you. As a joke.

Wahoo isn't really much different. The United States did awful things to Native Americans and then decided it'd be fun to use their race as a cartoonish mascot for their teams, along with costumes and makeup and chants. Let's have fun at the expense of Indians because it's just fun and no one is being harmed, right? It's archaic and racist. As I've stated multiple times, I am not really holding anything against those attached to the logo or name. I get it (to an extent). You grew up with it. The name Cleveland Indians just sounds right, even to me. And hell, I personally LOVE the look of Wahoo as a logo. But I look passed that to the context of what it represents and it makes me embarrassed for the team and the city.

Wahoo wasn't created to harm Indians, but I don't think sambo was intended for harm either. That's really beside the point of what's wrong with them. The intent came from a place of ignorance and dealt harm anyway.

And this is without me reaching out for some article that probably goes much deeper on the issue and describes the problem more eloquently.
Happy black person? Stereotype! Racism!

Angry black person? Racist trope!

We'll just have nihilistic representations of every person, and paint them clear and androgynous.
 
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