#52 DeShone Kizer

Ob1 said:

Yeah. I think I saw some people say he was hurt by drops, but i'm sure so were the other 2 QBs

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Wait, there's someone that actually records how many passes are completed in practice?!

At this point, I'm inclined to go with the kid.

There's simply some plays he's going to make that the other guys just can't make. Neither of the other two guys are routinely more adept at pushing the ball through traffic, so you have to wonder if they're not going to live with the growing pains of throwing a raw QB out there and tailoring the gameplan to focus on his strengths as the Cowboys with with Dak a year ago.

Ob1 said:

Kizer has only completed 52% of his passes so far. Let's pump the breaks a little bit. He's got all the talent in the world, but I think he needs to be refined a bit more before we throw him into the fire. After the Bye week sounds perfect.

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He's definitely been a victim to drops, but 52% in camp is not necessarily a bad thing. Camp is the time to be stretching it out, testing your abilities at the NFL level, and giving your first or second option a chance to make a play if it's there to be had. The trust we see formed by these units in games comes from seizing the opportunity in practice, and evaluating yourself on tape afterward to see where you could improve.

So, sure, we say 52% completion in camp thus far. He's also easily been the guy making the most big plays--without turning it over at a particularly high rate. He's finding out where he fits on the food chain, and I think we're going to like where that is.

Kessler, on the other hand, is likely taking a load of practice "sacks" and dinking and dunking to his 3rd option even in a practice setting.

thedarkness2332 said:

He's definitely been a victim to drops, but 52% in camp is not necessarily a bad thing. Camp is the time to be stretching it out, testing your abilities at the NFL level, and giving your first or second option a chance to make a play if it's there to be had. The trust we see formed by these units in games comes from seizing the opportunity in practice, and evaluating yourself on tape afterward to see where you could improve.

So, sure, we say 52% completion in camp thus far. He's also easily been the guy making the most big plays--without turning it over at a particularly high rate. He's finding out where he fits on the food chain, and I think we're going to like where that is.

Kessler, on the other hand, is likely taking a load of practice "sacks" and dinking and dunking to his 3rd option even in a practice setting.

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All valid points, but we need to see whether he can check down to his third option and whether he has fixed some of his mechanical flaws before we annoint him our #1. I think he'd be better off learning as we go for a few weeks. Even if we don't start him til after the Bye week, that would give him 8 games to show what he can do. If he looks great, go skill players next year, if not, reevaluate.

Actually, @!#$@ it, start him now and lets see what we've got. Kizer tha God is ready to slay. We haven't had this type of arm since we've been back.

CBBI said:

I'd start Kizer from Day 1.

It's not like the difference between he and Kessler/Osweiler is that significant. They'll likely win around 4-5 games no matter who is out there.

Personally, I'm not really concerned with potentially "ruining" Kizer by playing him too early because if things go really poorly this year and the Browns end up with a top 3 pick, they'll be drafting a QB more highly regarded than Kizer anyway.

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Exactly. Starting anyone, but Kizer is a huge waste of time.

Ob1 said:

All valid points, but we need to see whether he can check down to his third option and whether he has fixed some of his mechanical flaws before we annoint him our #1. I think he'd be better off learning as we go for a few weeks. Even if we don't start him til after the Bye week, that would give him 8 games to show what he can do. If he looks great, go skill players next year, if not, reevaluate.

Actually, @!#$@ it, start him now and lets see what we've got. Kizer tha God is ready to slay. We haven't had this type of arm since we've been back.

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CLEistheCITY said:

Exactly. Starting anyone, but Kizer is a huge waste of time.

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I don't fully agree, because you have to know he's ready.

If he has some fatal technical flaws, and putting him out there at this point will only allow those flaws to become deeper and deeper engraved as habits of his you simply cannot start him until you see that he has gotten down the good habits through practice.

It's all on Hue to evaluate this, but make sure he has been adequetly coached and drilled before throwing him to the fire.

It may just be that he has already picked up a lot of those things, or that Hue firmly believes that with Kizer he can tweak on the fly. Who knows until we see we what he has.

Don't you ever come at me with a picture of Brandon Weeden to talk arm talent again. Dude might be able to hit Clay Targets but I'll never get the image of his underhand throws out of my mind.

Randolphkeys said:

Hey, Hue has a lot of success with young QBs on his resume and that's why Cleveland was rightly thrilled he took this job. I also believe Hue is the type of coach who will call the right plays to put Kizer in a position to succeed when he does start.

That said, I was right here for the Manziel debacle. Whoever is the starting QB should be the right play for that week, don't start some guy who isn't ready because you want to be a AAAA minor league team trying to beat a major league club. My money is on a shit-show of veterans until the bye week and then Kizer plays the second half of the season. If Kizer surprises and earns his week one start, good for him and I'll support him... But for the love of God don't gift the draft pick who isn't ready a starting job. It just cripples the rest of the offense and these young skill position players.

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Manziel's debacle should have nothing to do with Kizer. Manziel didnt have the skills and was drunk and high as fuck while trying to play QB.

There are plenty of failed Browns qb's to look at before we use Manziel as an example to compare.

Lee said:

Manziel's debacle should have nothing to do with Kizer. Manziel didnt have the skills and was drunk and high as fuck while trying to play QB.

There are plenty of failed Browns qb's to look at before we use Manziel as an example to compare.

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Well since this is the third post pointing out the difference between Kizer and Johnny Cocaine, I'll clarify. Yes, they are very different people and I don't expect Kizer to flame out in embarrassing fashion.

Here's what's the same: Browns fans who don't value the role of the bridge QB. The dumb ass media who know the young guy is going to take over eventually, leading to articles with headlines similar to "Kizer taking steps to starting week one."

I saw him play a few games at Notre Dame. He seemed like the type of QB prospect who needs refinement. So I'm open to being totally surprised and Kizer fixing all his mechanical issues with a pass rush flying at him in year one, but I'm not going to count on it. He had a long long way to go last I saw him face an opponent.

The most important thing for a QB's development is reps and experience. I'm all for Kizer starting as soon as humanly possible. This is assuming he has a grasp on enough of the playbook/terminology, which seems to be the case by many accounts.

As long as Hue trusts that the kid has the mental makeup to deal with the inevitable struggles that accompany any young QB adjusting to the NFL game, give him the reps.

If he's got what it takes to succeed, he'll succeed. If not, find out sooner than later. The myth of ruining a young QB is a fabrication...we just happen to draft shitty ones to begin with.

Ob1 said:

Don't you ever come at me with a picture of Brandon Weeden to talk arm talent again. Dude might be able to hit Clay Targets but I'll never get the image of his underhand throws out of my mind.

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Greatness!

Soda said:

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Soda gettin' close to his GP

Randolphkeys said:

Well since this is the third post pointing out the difference between Kizer and Johnny Cocaine, I'll clarify. Yes, they are very different people and I don't expect Kizer to flame out in embarrassing fashion.

Here's what's the same: Browns fans who don't value the role of the bridge QB. The dumb ass media who know the young guy is going to take over eventually, leading to articles with headlines similar to "Kizer taking steps to starting week one."

I saw him play a few games at Notre Dame. He seemed like the type of QB prospect who needs refinement. So I'm open to being totally surprised and Kizer fixing all his mechanical issues with a pass rush flying at him in year one, but I'm not going to count on it. He had a long long way to go last I saw him face an opponent.

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Keys, I do think you have a valid point. He had some flaws last year at Notre Dame--flaws that made him fall all the way to #52. Some of those "flaws", however, weren't even on-the-field related concerns and seem to be much over blown in retrospect. Examples: His love for football was questioned, his willingness to work was questioned, and his maturity was questioned.

So far, articles coming out of camp and word from coaches seem to state that these 3 things are actually STRENGTHS of his. He's mature beyond his years, he's intelligent, he's working his ass off, and he is extremely driven--often staying after practice and coming in early. He's been a leader; he's been respectful of his teammates. I think a lot of the draft hoopla was just that--people taking something and running with it. It seems like making a mountain out of a mole hill just because a 21 year-old had bad body language once in a loss--something he acknowledged and knows should never happen.

As far as on the field, no doubt--the kid needed refinement on multiple things. One, cleaning up his mechanics. Two, some decision making concerns on tape. That dreaded "slow eyes" phrase. However, these tend to be the case with a number of young players. I also believe Hue Jackson is twice the coach Brian Kelly is--especially for a young quarterback.

Kizer was more than a football player at Notre Dame. He's a smart kid who did well in classes and was involved around the community. It was probably a lot to juggle. Now that this is his full-time job, it appears he's made as big as strides as a youngster can make in this short 4 month period since being drafted. Working out with Tom House had to have had a positive outcome.

Sure, if he starts this season, we're still going to see some of those flaws. However, if Hue thinks he can simplify things for him and lead him to success on the field, I am absolutely all for it. If it's going to be a nightmare, I don't think Hue ever entertains putting him on the field. I trust him to make that call. That said, from all reports we've seen from camp--including coaching interviews--Kizer is much further along than anticipated and he's outperforming our other quarterbacks. At minimum, it's a push with more weeks to go and more weeks for Kizer to continue to progress.

Remember if Kizer runs with the starters today, they will be facing the 2nd team defense, so temper expectations.

Outside of Kizer, I'm excited to see the WRs (mainly Coleman, Britt & Louis), TEs and particularly Kai Nacua at S. A lot of people on DraftTwitter thought he was a day 3 pick.

I didn't include Myles in that group because I think that's fairly obvious. Anyone you guys excited to finally see live?