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Cleveland Browns 2017 Training Camp

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Mr. Orange said:
Every year with this.... guys we are going 5-11 and picking 5th.
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that would be a nice season and nice result.......especially if Houston goes 4-12 and picks 3rd.
 
Am I missing something about the Brock trade? Aren't 2nd rounders only guaranteed less than 3 million?

You paid all that money and gave up a 4th to move up two rounds?

I don't get the trade. It sounds like their original plan failed.
 
Kyrie4MVP0202 said:
Am I missing something about the Brock trade? Aren't 2nd rounders only guaranteed less than 3 million?

You paid all that money and gave up a 4th to move up two rounds?

I don't get the trade. It sounds like their original plan failed.
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The salary you pay a 2nd round pick is part of the allure. You can get an NFL starter under cheap team control for 4 years.

Also, we had to get to the salary floor anyway. Brock's contract assisted us with this.

There was no downside to this trade whatsoever.

I'm unaware of the offset language in Brock's contract, but there's a chance we could recoup a bit of money if another team picks him up as a backup.

So long story short.... yep, you're missing something.
 
thedarkness2332 said:
The salary you pay a 2nd round pick is part of the allure. You can get an NFL starter under cheap team control for 4 years.

Also, we had to get to the salary floor anyway. Brock's contract assisted us with this.

There was no downside to this trade whatsoever.

I'm unaware of the offset language in Brock's contract, but there's a chance we could recoup a bit of money if another team picks him up as a backup.

So long story short.... yep, you're missing something.
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I guess....

I probably would have resigned Pryor for a year to meet the salary floor and hoped he resigned next year or even just a completely different way to go about spending that money altogether. The team is lacking at many positions.

I dunno, it just seems like a really dumb, expensive way to move up two rounds. Can anyone name a similar trade in which this much money and a pick was used to move up two rounds?
 
Kyrie4MVP0202 said:
I guess....

I probably would have resigned Pryor for a year to meet the salary floor and hoped he resigned next year or even just a completely different way to go about spending that money altogether. The team is lacking at many positions.

I dunno, it just seems like a really dumb, expensive way to move up two rounds. Can anyone name a similar trade in which this much money and a pick was used to move up two rounds?
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It's never happened in the NFL before to this extent.

This is an outside-the-box move that the NBA frequents, not the NFL. It's only applicable for guaranteed money, which isn't thrown around loosely in the NFL.

This is the first of its kind.

However, how do you think the Cavs acquired the 1st overall pick to take Kyrie Irving. They took on Baron Davis' contract. Chris Grant was an expert at acquiring picks during our rebuild. I applaud Sashi and Depo.

We have so much damn cap room, we could've kept Pryor, too, if we wanted. After he passed on our fair offer, the front office moved on.

As Keys has mentioned, this is an intentional effort by our new regime to not be toyed with and used as leverage by our own FA to get more out of other teams. No more laughing stock. No haggling. Our front office makes a strong offer, and doesn't move off of it. It's based on compiled data of what they think a player is worth and projecting forward production. Pryor tried to use the Browns offer to get more elsewhere. Thus, we signed Britt.

This was a fantastic trade. We will get that cap room back next year as Osweiler is off the books.

If you don't like the trade, there's nothing I can do to help you.
 
Kyrie4MVP0202 said:
I guess....

I probably would have resigned Pryor for a year to meet the salary floor and hoped he resigned next year or even just a completely different way to go about spending that money altogether. The team is lacking at many positions.

I dunno, it just seems like a really dumb, expensive way to move up two rounds. Can anyone name a similar trade in which this much money and a pick was used to move up two rounds?
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You probably wont be able to find another trade to compare to. This type of tactic was typically not seen in the NFL. Basketball, Baseball -- yes, it is far more common. It obviously got a lot of press and was being labeled a "Moneyball" move because you just dont see these moves, at least not in the NFL anyway.

I like the creativity and am on board with Depodesta pulling out some trickery to make things happen.
 
thedarkness2332 said:
It's never happened in the NFL before to this extent.

This is an outside-the-box move that the NBA frequents, not the NFL. It's only applicable for guaranteed money, which isn't thrown around loosely in the NFL.

This is the first of its kind.

However, how do you think the Cavs acquired the 1st overall pick to take Kyrie Irving. They took on Baron Davis' contract. Chris Grant was an expert at acquiring picks during our rebuild. I applaud Sashi and Depo.

We have so much damn cap room, we could've kept Pryor, too, if we wanted. After he passed on our fair offer, the front office moved on.

As Keys has mentioned, this is an intentional effort by our new regime to not be toyed with and used as leverage by our own FA to get more out of other teams. No more laughing stock. No haggling. Our front office makes a strong offer, and doesn't move off of it. It's based on compiled data of what they think a player is worth and projecting forward production. Pryor tried to use the Browns offer to get more elsewhere. Thus, we signed Britt.

This was a fantastic trade. We will get that cap room back next year as Osweiler is off the books.

If you don't like the trade, there's nothing I can do to help you.
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Hahaha, looks like we posted at the same time! Props to you, as your description was far more detailed.
 
I'll take your words for it.

I guess I just feel like it was a creative way to overspend and not get back much in return. Very inefficient use of resources, IMO.

Hey, hopefully that 2nd rounder nets us something worthwhile. We'll see.
 
Kyrie4MVP0202 said:
I'll take your words for it.

I guess I just feel like it was a creative way to overspend and not get back much in return. Very inefficient use of resources, IMO.

Hey, hopefully that 2nd rounder nets us something worthwhile. We'll see.
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We used the 2nd rounder to draft Kizer.

So basically Kizer cost us zero of our own draft slots. Basically just paid kizer 21 mill for 4 years or something is one way to look at it. (although i am sure Kizer wishes he got all 21 million of it, lol)
 
Lee said:
We used the 2nd rounder to draft Kizer.

So basically Kizer cost us zero of our own draft slots. Basically just paid kizer 21 mill for 4 years or something is one way to look at it. (although i am sure Kizer wishes he got all 21 million of it, lol)
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I think it's Houson's 2018 2nd rounder not Kizer.

Maybe I'm wrong.
 
Kyrie4MVP0202 said:
I'll take your words for it.

I guess I just feel like it was a creative way to overspend and not get back much in return. Very inefficient use of resources, IMO.

Hey, hopefully that 2nd rounder nets us something worthwhile. We'll see.
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2nd round picks are very very valuable in the NFL.

I mean, shit, we may have our franchise quarterback with a 2nd rounder.

Joel Bitonio was a 2nd rounder.

Jamar Taylor was a 2nd rounder.

Emmanuel Ogbah was a 2nd rounder.

Jamie Collins was a 2nd rounder.

Solid NFL starters and All-Pros are taken in the 2nd round all the time. These are very high picks that you can't just purchase lightly.

It's never been done.

But if you think about the price of Joel Bitonio, as an example, he was starting for this team right out of the gates.

Over those first four years, he made under $4 million from us total. Now, his going rate is $12+ million/year at his market rate. That's around $60 million.

So four years of a Bitonio-caliber left guard is worth $48 million total. By drafting him and building that way, we paid $4 million. That's $44 million in savings just as a crude estimate.

We paid $16 million for the right to add an NFL starter to our team. That's even less when you consider we had to pay that money anyway based on the floor.

It was definitely worth it if the alternative is filling said need via free agency spending.
 
Kbiz said:
Selfishly, i'd prefer us to have a bottom five year because this team is going to look completely different after next year's draft. While going 6-10 is good for team morale and hopeful for next year, it doesn't help us in the draft. Luckily we do have the picks to move up regardless.
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The Moneyball/pick maximization strategy this front office has implemented so successfully really changes everything.

Year in, year out, we should be able to add through the draft overall talent equivalent to what the teams with the worst records are able to add. Even if we are as top ten or top 5 team.

I don't think the league's ever seen anything like this. And because it is not a short term/single season strategy as was "Moneyball" in baseball, I don't think other teams will replicate it so easily. It takes patience and a willingness to admit your talent evaluation is no better than average. Most NFL types won't do that.

We have a true systemic advantage over the rest of the league.
 
Kyrie4MVP0202 said:
I'll take your words for it.

I guess I just feel like it was a creative way to overspend and not get back much in return. Very inefficient use of resources, IMO.

Hey, hopefully that 2nd rounder nets us something worthwhile. We'll see.
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Consider that we were going to be penalized for being below the cap floor, so either we spend that money and get a second round pick, or we hand that money to the league office and get nothing.
 
Kyrie4MVP0202 said:
I'll take your words for it.

I guess I just feel like it was a creative way to overspend and not get back much in return. Very inefficient use of resources, IMO.

Hey, hopefully that 2nd rounder nets us something worthwhile. We'll see.
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We had to spend the money to reach the floor. Why not get something out of it that we can use down the line. I doubt there were other players available who could come in and be a long term future piece and still be had for simply taking on salary cap.

There is really no down side to the trade, despite what crazy old Bill Polian says.
 
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