Cleveland Browns 2017 Training Camp

[Triple-S]

It was definitely worth it if the alternative is filling said need via free agency spending.

The Browns are not going to lure any high caliber FA type here in the short term.

This isn't to say that the Guard and Center we landed here were not the type (two good signings if they pan out). But you're not gonna get some top flight wide reciever to play for this team for example.

This helps.

 

[sportscoach]

Browns weren't looking to get to the playoffs this season. The season they are planning on to get to the playoffs they will spend money to fill in the gaps the young talent/draft couldn't fill in. They were looking for certain types of players and they tried to get all of those in free agency. Otherwise they weren't going to spend money needlessly on players that weren't going to help them.

 

[Jack Brickman]

The Moneyball/pick maximization strategy this front office has implemented so successfully really changes everything.

Year in, year out, we should be able to add through the draft overall talent equivalent to what the teams with the worst records are able to add. Even if we are as top ten or top 5 team.

I don't think the league's ever seen anything like this. And because it is not a short term/single season strategy as was "Moneyball" in baseball, I don't think other teams will replicate it so easily. It takes patience and a willingness to admit your talent evaluation is no better than average. Most NFL types won't do that.

We have a true systemic advantage over the rest of the league.

What you need more than anything is an owner who is actually willing to eat a couple of shit years to get a process like this started. The Browns have failed over and over again in their rebuilds because they keep jumping the gun and firing front offices before they have a chance to build anything. You can't build a winning culture over night, and you can't get anywhere as a sports franchise by constantly replacing your front office because, in the NFL at least, new GMs want to bring in their own guys, and they have no investment in the guys drafted by previous regimes. If you try to flip front offices every two or three years, though, you end up in a never-ending process of letting the old regime's guys walk and trying to bring in the guys you want.

Now granted, a lot of our previous regimes were obviously various levels of incompetent, but even with those I think that, given four or five years, they probably could have put together a winning team. Of course, no regime has gotten that long since the Browns returned to Cleveland, and that's part of the reason we've been stuck in purgatory for so long.

Hopefully they'll continue to show patience with this front office and give them a couple more years to continue building what they're building, because this is definitely the most confident I've been in a front office in my adult lifetime.

 

[dark2332]

Browns weren't looking to get to the playoffs this season. The season they are planning on to get to the playoffs they will spend money to fill in the gaps the young talent/draft couldn't fill in. They were looking for certain types of players and they tried to get all of those in free agency. Otherwise they weren't going to spend money needlessly on players that weren't going to help them.

If Kizer shows enough this season to truly be the guy moving forward--and I think he will--then next offseason you will see the Browns spend more than they ever have. An explosion.

They'll want complimentary talent signed immediately to maximize time with Garrett, Peppers, Kizer and the '18 draft haul while they are on their cheap rookie deals.

Then, when Garrett, Peppers, Njoku and Kizer are due for extensions, these veteran contracts from the '18 offseason will be far enough along to be expired or easy to cut bait.

Built to last.

 

[sportscoach]

If Kizer shows enough this season to truly be the guy moving forward--and I think he will--then next offseason you will see the Browns spend more than they ever have. An explosion.

They'll want complimentary talent signed immediately to maximize time with Garrett, Peppers, Kizer and the '18 draft haul while they are on their cheap rookie deals.

Then, when Garrett, Peppers, Njoku and Kizer are due for extensions, these veteran contracts from the '18 offseason will be far enough along to be expired or easy to cut bait.

Built to last.

So far they are doing everything the right way. Hopefully the players pan out with the coaching we currently have.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

What you need more than anything is an owner who is actually willing to eat a couple of shit years to get a process like this started. The Browns have failed over and over again in their rebuilds because they keep jumping the gun and firing front offices before they have a chance to build anything. You can't build a winning culture over night, and you can't get anywhere as a sports franchise by constantly replacing your front office because, in the NFL at least, new GMs want to bring in their own guys, and they have no investment in the guys drafted by previous regimes. If you try to flip front offices every two or three years, though, you end up in a never-ending process of letting the old regime's guys walk and trying to bring in the guys you want.

Now granted, a lot of our previous regimes were obviously various levels of incompetent, but even with those I think that, given four or five years, they probably could have put together a winning team. Of course, no regime has gotten that long since the Browns returned to Cleveland, and that's part of the reason we've been stuck in purgatory for so long.

Hopefully they'll continue to show patience with this front office and give them a couple more years to continue building what they're building, because this is definitely the most confident I've been in a front office in my adult lifetime.

Can't recall about the others, but I do remember Pettine specifically saying that the reason you acquire extra picks is to trade up and acquire the guys you really like. I just think that was a losing talent acquisition strategy long term.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Can't recall about the others, but I do remember Pettine specifically saying that the reason you acquire extra picks is to trade up and acquire the guys you really like. I just think that was a losing talent acquisition strategy long term.

Yeah, as I said...hard to defend the competence of previous regimes, as they all made a lot of godawful picks and bad coaching hires.

However, I do think that most of them, given at least five years, probably could have turned us into at least a halfway respectable football team just by sheer luck. No other team in the NFL has been as consistently embarrassing as the Browns for as long as we have, and I owe it almost entirely to the way we turn over everything every two to three years. You just can't build anything, even if what you're building is just mediocre, if nobody ever gets the time to build it.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I'd actually give Jimmy Haslam some credit here. He's not a football guy, but he understands logic, numbers, and business plans. He also knew he was hearing basically the same thing from everyone else he'd hired.

I imagine when he sat down with the Harvard guys and listened to their pitch, he knew he was hearing something innovative. I'm sure he asked why other teams weren't doing it, they answered, and that was enough for him to make the time/money investment to give them the chance to do it the way it had never been done before. He believed in them because what they said made sense.

 

[sportscoach]

I'd actually give Jimmy Haslam some credit here. He's not a football guy, but he understand logic, numbers, and business plans. He also knew he was hearing basically the same thing from everyone else he'd hired.

I imagine when he sat down with the Harvard guys and listened to their pitch, he knew he was hearing something innovative. I'm sure he asked why other teams weren't doing it, they answered, and that was enough for him to make the time/money investment to give them the chance to do it the way it had never been done before. He believed in them because what they said made sense.

He also figured he needed to be less involved since him getting involved to much caused some issues and with this new regime, decided to trust them rather than try to control them.

 

[Matches]

It's only taken a year and a half but I am now more confident in Sashi Brown and the front to office than I am in Hue Jackson as head coach. It was the exact opposite when they were all first hired.

Not to say I'm worried about Hue. I'm just THAT convinced in Sashi and Paul's vision.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

It's only taken a year and a half but I am now more confident in Sashi Brown and the front to office than I am in Hue Jackson as head coach. It was the exact opposite when they were all first hired.

Not to say I'm worried about Hue. I'm just THAT convinced in Sashi and Paul's vision.

It's pretty extraordinary. They're like Gutenberg with movable type, everyone else is copying books by hand and still believes hand copying is better. Sashi and Paul know they've got that advantage, and have to be amazed at how the traditionalists who dominate the league are seemingly unable to adapt.

Belichek is the one other guy who has done aspects of moneyball as well, although because the Pats picks have been so low, he just can't leverage it as much as the Browns can. But this is just so damn encouraging because there's no reason they can't keep doing this indefinitely. That will give us a significant talent acquisition advantage over the rest of the league into the indefinite future.

 

[buzzdog]

It's only taken a year and a half but I am now more confident in Sashi Brown and the front to office than I am in Hue Jackson as head coach. It was the exact opposite when they were all first hired.

Not to say I'm worried about Hue. I'm just THAT convinced in Sashi and Paul's vision.

Agreed. I want to be skeptical but it's hard to see the track we're on without thinking we're finally starting to get things right. I see a vision taking shape after all these years of aimlessly drifting in an abyss.