rabman_gold
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I've considered making this post for years, but with the dawn of the 2017-18 season slowly approaching (and one of the best rosters ever constructed by a Cavs team), I thought this would be the best time to finally put it in writing.
It's always been a discussion on the boards: how great a Cavs team is. How deep. How many all-stars. How many guys it takes to win a championship. But this year redefines that word "depth". Not counting the guys we already had that produced in big roles as starters (like LeBron, Love, Tristan, J.R.) or off the bench (Shumpert, Korver, Jefferson, Frye), we finally have picked up former big-timers on the cheap (Rose and Wade) or traded to fill out our depth (Thomas and Crowder).
To appreciate this year's historical depth, you have to look at the rest of our history and see what was lacking.
1975-1976 - The Miracle of Richfield
The first year we made the playoffs (1975-1976) was 9 players deep, but no standouts or big time all-stars.
Jim Chones (15.8 and 9), Jim Brewer (11.5 and 10.9), and Jim Cleamons (12.2, 4.3, and 5.2) were the leaders (all played 30+ minutes per game), but needed the mid-season trade for Nate Thurmond to realize that year's potential as a contender.
Nate Thurmond, a future hall of famer at this point, was a shell of his former self but a great addition in the leadership category.
Austin Carr was Mr. Cavalier but couldn't stay healthy enough to break out, so became a super scoring 6th man.
1988-1989 - A precursor to the infamous "Shot" game
While the 1976 squad was deeper, the talent level of this squad was much higher, leading to a better regular season than most Cavs teams. They had four players with at least 17+ points per game but continued to play great offensive basketball under former champion coach Lenny Wilkins. The primary reason for their 57 wins is because all of their top 7 players stayed healthy (at least 73 games played on the season). Unfortunately, the primary reason they lost in the first round of the playoffs was because their opponent had a superstar player moving into the prime of his career (Michael Jordan).
1991-92 was an extension of this squad. They didn't have Ron Harper anymore, but had acquired future rotational players (Terrell Brandon, Steve Kerr, Danny Ferry, and John Battle). It didn't make much of a difference and reached previous Cavalier milestones (57 regular season wins and reached the Eastern Conference Finals).
1993-94 had a deeper squad, but many of their previous all-stars could no longer stay healthy (Daugherty and Nance). It's a what-if moment in our history that never developed.
2008-2009 - The Greatest Regular Season Cavalier Team
A team on the rise thanks to finally having their first legitimate NBA superstar, they were able to win 66 games and reach the Eastern Conference Finals. By continuing to upgrade their roster each year, they finally had 9 players on their team at the start of the season who could impact the game positively (with the 10th player signing mid-season: Joe Smith). The primary reason they couldn't go further was because the other players were not at all-star level like their leader. It also didn't help that some players suffered injuries that affected their remaining season (Ben Wallace) and were a shell of their former selves (Zydrunas Ilgauskas).
2009-10 was similar (62 wins and Eastern Conference Semi-Finalists), despite being arguably the deepest roster to date.
They had 5 players who appeared in at least 1 all-star game (Shaq, Z, Jamison, LeBron, and Mo), 3 more who had heavily contributed to the previous year's record-setting team (Andy, West, Gibson), and 3 others who produced average results at minimum (Hickson, Parker, and Moon). If only the team discovered the fountain of youth before the season ended...
2015-2016 - Cleveland's First Championship in 52 years
This team combines the strengths of previous teams (1976's deepness, 1989-1992's all-stars, 2009's superstar) to give the team 1 superstar (LeBron), 2 all-star level players (Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love), 3 starter-level players (Tristan Thompson, J.R. Smith, Iman Shumpert), and 3 more players that contribute meaningful minutes in specialized role (Channing Frye, Richard Jefferson, and Matthew Dellavedova). It helped offset injuries as well.
---------
And now we have this squad.
Because we have contended for the last 3 years, players who previously wouldn't sign here would take less money for the chance to win a championship. This included former all-stars Dwyane Wade and Derrick Rose and former starter Jeff Green. It also allowed us to obtain high level players from other contenders (Jae Crowder and Isaiah Thomas), even though we traded a potential star in Irving. We also brought Euro stashed players who could break the rotation if luck plays a role (Cedi Osman and Ante Zizic).
Stats that help support our Historical Depth:
Value over Replacement Players
Over the course of the NBA regular season, the players that stand out on each team are given a number (-2.0 equals an average player, otherwise called a replacement player). I've added the VORP numbers each player contributed for each season (including players with negative values).
Numbers courtesy of Basketball-Reference.com
So, what do you guys think? Will the team which has amassed all of the depth be able to answer one of the historically deepest teams in NBA History (Golden State)? I'm waiting for your in-"depth" answers .
It's always been a discussion on the boards: how great a Cavs team is. How deep. How many all-stars. How many guys it takes to win a championship. But this year redefines that word "depth". Not counting the guys we already had that produced in big roles as starters (like LeBron, Love, Tristan, J.R.) or off the bench (Shumpert, Korver, Jefferson, Frye), we finally have picked up former big-timers on the cheap (Rose and Wade) or traded to fill out our depth (Thomas and Crowder).
To appreciate this year's historical depth, you have to look at the rest of our history and see what was lacking.
1975-1976 - The Miracle of Richfield
- Jim Chones
- Jim Brewer
- Nate Thurmond
- Bingo Smith
- Campy Russell
- Dick Snyder
- Jim Cleamons
- Austin Carr
- Foots Walker
- 9 players with 1000+ minutes played
- 7 players with 10+ points per game (Jim Chones and Campy Russell with 15+ points per game)
The first year we made the playoffs (1975-1976) was 9 players deep, but no standouts or big time all-stars.
Jim Chones (15.8 and 9), Jim Brewer (11.5 and 10.9), and Jim Cleamons (12.2, 4.3, and 5.2) were the leaders (all played 30+ minutes per game), but needed the mid-season trade for Nate Thurmond to realize that year's potential as a contender.
Nate Thurmond, a future hall of famer at this point, was a shell of his former self but a great addition in the leadership category.
Austin Carr was Mr. Cavalier but couldn't stay healthy enough to break out, so became a super scoring 6th man.
1988-1989 - A precursor to the infamous "Shot" game
- Brad Daugherty
- Larry Nance
- Hot Rod Williams
- Mike Sanders
- Ron Harper
- Mark Price
- Craig Ehlo
- Darnell Valentine
- 3 Eastern Conference all-stars (Brad Daugherty, Mark Price, and Larry Nance)
- 1 additional all-star level player (Ron Harper)
- 4 more players with 1000+ minutes played (Hot Rod Williams, Craig Ehlo, Mike Sanders, and Darnell Valentine)
While the 1976 squad was deeper, the talent level of this squad was much higher, leading to a better regular season than most Cavs teams. They had four players with at least 17+ points per game but continued to play great offensive basketball under former champion coach Lenny Wilkins. The primary reason for their 57 wins is because all of their top 7 players stayed healthy (at least 73 games played on the season). Unfortunately, the primary reason they lost in the first round of the playoffs was because their opponent had a superstar player moving into the prime of his career (Michael Jordan).
1991-92 was an extension of this squad. They didn't have Ron Harper anymore, but had acquired future rotational players (Terrell Brandon, Steve Kerr, Danny Ferry, and John Battle). It didn't make much of a difference and reached previous Cavalier milestones (57 regular season wins and reached the Eastern Conference Finals).
1993-94 had a deeper squad, but many of their previous all-stars could no longer stay healthy (Daugherty and Nance). It's a what-if moment in our history that never developed.
- Brad Daugherty
- Larry Nance
- Hot Rod Williams
- Tyrone Hill
- Gerald Wilkins
- Chris Mills
- Bobby Phills
- Mark Price
- Terrell Brandon
- John Battle
2008-2009 - The Greatest Regular Season Cavalier Team
- Zydrunas Ilgauskas
- Ben Wallace
- Anderson Varejao
- LeBron James
- Delonte West
- Mo Williams
- Wally Szczerbiak
- Sasha Pavlovic
- Daniel Gibson
- Joe Smith
- 1 NBA MVP (LeBron James)
- 1 All-Star level player (Mo Williams)
- 7 more players with 1000+ minutes played
A team on the rise thanks to finally having their first legitimate NBA superstar, they were able to win 66 games and reach the Eastern Conference Finals. By continuing to upgrade their roster each year, they finally had 9 players on their team at the start of the season who could impact the game positively (with the 10th player signing mid-season: Joe Smith). The primary reason they couldn't go further was because the other players were not at all-star level like their leader. It also didn't help that some players suffered injuries that affected their remaining season (Ben Wallace) and were a shell of their former selves (Zydrunas Ilgauskas).
2009-10 was similar (62 wins and Eastern Conference Semi-Finalists), despite being arguably the deepest roster to date.
- Shaquille O'Neal
- Antawn Jamison
- Zydrunas Ilgauskas
- Anderson Varejao
- J.J. Hickson
- LeBron James
- Jamario Moon
- Anthony Parker
- Mo Williams
- Delonte West
- Daniel Gibson
They had 5 players who appeared in at least 1 all-star game (Shaq, Z, Jamison, LeBron, and Mo), 3 more who had heavily contributed to the previous year's record-setting team (Andy, West, Gibson), and 3 others who produced average results at minimum (Hickson, Parker, and Moon). If only the team discovered the fountain of youth before the season ended...
2015-2016 - Cleveland's First Championship in 52 years
- Timofey Mozgov
- Kevin Love
- Tristan Thompson
- Channing Frye
- LeBron James
- Richard Jefferson
- J.R. Smith
- Iman Shumpert
- Kyrie Irving
- Matthew Dellavedova
- Mo Williams
- James Jones
This team combines the strengths of previous teams (1976's deepness, 1989-1992's all-stars, 2009's superstar) to give the team 1 superstar (LeBron), 2 all-star level players (Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love), 3 starter-level players (Tristan Thompson, J.R. Smith, Iman Shumpert), and 3 more players that contribute meaningful minutes in specialized role (Channing Frye, Richard Jefferson, and Matthew Dellavedova). It helped offset injuries as well.
---------
And now we have this squad.
- Tristan Thompson
- Kevin Love
- Channing Frye
- LeBron James
- Jae Crowder
- Jeff Green
- J.R. Smith
- Kyle Korver
- Dwyane Wade
- Derrick Rose
- Isiah Thomas
- Etc.
Because we have contended for the last 3 years, players who previously wouldn't sign here would take less money for the chance to win a championship. This included former all-stars Dwyane Wade and Derrick Rose and former starter Jeff Green. It also allowed us to obtain high level players from other contenders (Jae Crowder and Isaiah Thomas), even though we traded a potential star in Irving. We also brought Euro stashed players who could break the rotation if luck plays a role (Cedi Osman and Ante Zizic).
Stats that help support our Historical Depth:
Value over Replacement Players
Over the course of the NBA regular season, the players that stand out on each team are given a number (-2.0 equals an average player, otherwise called a replacement player). I've added the VORP numbers each player contributed for each season (including players with negative values).
Numbers courtesy of Basketball-Reference.com
- 1975-1976: 12.8
- 1988-1989: 19.6
- 2008-2009: 21.9
- 2015-2016: 17.2
- 1981-1982: 0.6
- 2002-2003: -2.3
- 2010-2011: -1.7
So, what do you guys think? Will the team which has amassed all of the depth be able to answer one of the historically deepest teams in NBA History (Golden State)? I'm waiting for your in-"depth" answers .