A "Depth"-Defying Experience - The Best Roster Ever?

[Pioneer10]

You might as well scratch anyone who can't shoot out of the lineup: TT, Rose, Shumpert gone and team improves dramatically. Even semi better shooting from Rose to Shump caused a big jump. If you can't shoot, you better be damn good at basically everything else like Wade and then surrounded by shooters now. Those guys are all best considered trade bait and not depth (in fact they might be considered negative depth: hard for coaches not to play but don't actually help the team)

 

[czvo]

So... I thought I'd revisit the topic of "depth" (since some are discussing it in other threads).

How's it look for us at this point?

Sorted by total minutes played:

1. LeBron James
2. J.R. Smith
3. Kevin Love
4. Jae Crowder
5. Dwyane Wade
6. Kyle Korver
7. Jeff Green
8. Iman Shumpert
9. Derrick Rose
10. Tristan Thompson
11. Channing Frye
12. Jose Calderon
13. Cedi Osman
14. Ante Zizic
15. John Holland (2-way)

11 players with 150+ minutes played. 6 players with 10+ points per game (3 of them are reserves). 5 players with 1+ three pointers made per game (4 shooting at least 34.9%).

Still waiting on Isaiah Thomas. Derrick, Tristan, and Shumpert haven't been fully healthy. But aside from that, we're coming into our own, aren't we? Channing and Jose have done well as the "next men up". Even Cedi has scored some rotational minutes.

What's your thoughts, fellas? With Isaiah coming back? What if we suffer more injuries? Won't we be able to get the "next man up"? We may still have a long ways to go, but the potential is there.

I see no role for Rose when he returns. At one point in the Brooklyn game, Lue went to an all-bench unit (Wade-Korver-Cedi-Green-Frye) for an extended period of time in the first half. I don't think there's any point in playing Rose in front of any of those guys, and that's before we get into IT and TT coming back. IT pretty clearly replaces Calderon, and soaks up extra minutes from Wade. TT will get minutes based on match-ups. Hell, Calderon probably deserves any match-up based minutes beyond that.

 

[tonyn]

Aaaaaaaaand....

Take 2

 

[rabman_gold]

Can't say much about the "new" depth yet, but it's promising.

If we skip all stat requirements needed to lead the team (per minute/game requirements):

• We have 10 guys currently with at least 20 minutes per game (5 who are 29 years of age and younger)
• We have 5 guys with at least 10 points per game (3 who are primary reserves)
• We have 7 guys who are shooting 35% or better from 3 point range

For all the guys we moved on from (IT, Crowder, Wade, Rose, Shump, and Frye):

• 3 of them had less than 20 minutes per game
• Only 2 had more than 10 points per game
• Only 2 had hit more than 45% of their field goals
• None of them hit more than 35% of their three pointers

And among all of the four new guys:

• All of them are averaging 9 or more points per game
• All of them are averaging at least 2 rebounds per game
• Besides Rodney Hood, all of the others have 2.5 assists per game
• Besides George Hill, all of the other have 1 or more steals per game
• George Hill is the only one with more than 1 turnover a game

As we round into form, we could be in for a real treat with this new roster.

 

[stowfan]

I can not wait for this all star game break to be over!

 

[borgon]

I am always amazed - looking at the talent level - that the squad from 10 years ago could win 60 games but this current version has topped out at 57

(postseason differences noted)

 

[CBBI]

I am always amazed - looking at the talent level - that the squad from 10 years ago could win 60 games but this current version has topped out at 57

(postseason differences noted)

Gotta remember that “Chill Mode” hadn’t been invented in 2009.

24-year-old LeBron went balls to the wall basically every night in the regular season back then.

The Mike Brown strategy was highly effective in the dog days of the season when teams weren’t ready for it.

1. Maximum effort defensively and on the glass every night.

2. Slow the game way down, creating less overall possessions to make each possession matter more.

The Cavs beat the hell out of a bunch of teams, especially at home in 2009 and 2010, by simply playing harder in these rather meaningless January and February games.

One of the big issues the Cavs ran into in the postseason under Brown is that EVERYONE gives max effort in the playoffs. So one of the Cavs biggest advantages in those incredible 2009 and 2010 regular seasons (consistent high end effort on defense) was mitigated because everyone does that once the playoffs start.

The 06-10 Cavs just never had that extra bit of talent/skill they could tap into when they couldn’t out effort people.

 

[6.19.2016]

I am always amazed - looking at the talent level - that the squad from 10 years ago could win 60 games but this current version has topped out at 57

(postseason differences noted)

Well, technically, this version could also top out at 60 this season, in spite of everything. Realistically, I expect them somewhere near 57, which bodes well because it does still matter somewhat, even if you can count on a higher level from playoff LeBron, as low-50 win or lockout equivalent teams typically don't win championships.

We saw that same over-exerted regular season team, at a higher level than those 09-10 Cavs teams, from the '16 Warriors, which basically started devolving into a mid-50-win team towards the end of the regular season, and showed that by essentially playing both us and 55-win OKC to draws.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Realistically, I expect them somewhere near 57

Don't see how we do that; we'd have to only lose 3 games from here on out.

Would be nice though because 57 wins is the sweet spot for title-winning teams (see us in '16) and we'd challenge the Raptors for the #1 seed. People may scoff at seeding and act dismissive towards the Raptors but I think there's a possibility they present us our biggest Eastern challenge in the LeBron redux era, after the '15 Bulls.

A total of 3 losses from here on out also proves that we gelled well and quickly. I'd like to sit LeBron some games heading down the stretch though. Can this team finally beat shitty opponents without him?

 

[6.19.2016]

Don't see how we do that; we'd have to only lose 3 games from here on out.

Would be nice though because 57 wins is the sweet spot for title-winning teams (see us in '16) and we'd challenge the Raptors for the #1 seed. People may scoff at seeding and act dismissive towards the Raptors but I think there's a possibility they present us our biggest Eastern challenge in the LeBron redux era, after the '15 Bulls.

A total of 3 losses from here on out also proves that we gelled well and quickly. I'd like to sit LeBron some games heading down the stretch though. Can this team finally beat shitty opponents without him?

Does 23-3 really seem that far-fetched, though? Although we could rest starters at the end of the year, it seems like we hit a switch with the trades. @Por, @Den, MAYBE @Mia are the only games I'd give us less than 50-50 odds at - we also have 2 home games against TOR and 1 each against SA and DEN that I'd put as even to slight favorites.

Agree 100% on Toronto - the big difference this year is average point diff, which they are right with GS and the Rockets on.

 

[shoes22]

Does 23-3 really seem that far-fetched, though? Although we could rest starters at the end of the year, it seems like we hit a switch with the trades. @Por, @Den, MAYBE @Mia are the only games I'd give us less than 50-50 odds at - we also have 2 home games against TOR that I'd put us around 50-50.

Agree 100% on Toronto - the big difference this year is average point diff, which they are right with GS and the Rockets on.

Yes it does seem far fetched. I’d easily make a $100 bet we lose more than 3 games the rest of the year.

 

[6.19.2016]

Yes it does seem far fetched. I’d easily make a $100 bet we lose more than 3 games the rest of the year.

I would too if betting was my thing, as it's better than 50-50 - particularly with resting games towards the end - although our last 2 games are a home-and-home against NYK without the Latvian Unicorn that we may win anyway - but it's also not "far fetched."

 

[weepinwillow]

This aged well

 

[rabman_gold]

This aged well

Yeah... I wanted to get back to this thread at the season's halfway point, but then everything went to shit. Someone else revived this thread, so I said: "Why not?"

Still have as many role players as the Miracle of Richfield teams, as many talented players as the Price/Daugherty/Nance teams, and as many superstars as the Mike Brown-coached teams. There's potential.

...

I'll go back to my corner now...

 

[weepinwillow]

Yeah... I wanted to get back to this thread at the season's halfway point, but then everything went to shit. Someone else revived this thread, so I said: "Why not?"

Still have as many role players as the Miracle of Richfield teams, as many talented players as the Price/Daugherty/Nance teams, and as many superstars as the Mike Brown-coached teams. There's potential.

...

I'll go back to my corner now...

Hey, I had Anthony Bennett as my dark horse pick back in 2013, so you’ll need room in the corner


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