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2019 Browns Head Coach Candidates

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Phills14 said:
I hate this thread.

We will always be where we are if we change leadership every 2 years. I have not been impressed with Jackson thus far. His play calling makes me scratch my head and his use of time outs is maddening. But it helps to have good players too. We have some talent but the cupboard is still pretty bare.

I’m good with adding talent to the coaching staff and front office but not blowing it up. Do not do that!!!
Click to expand...

Completely agree. I think Hue needs to take a step back and evaluate his process. I think the first step is giving play calling duties to someone on his offensive staff. With the lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball and not having a competent starting QB, any HC who is calling plays will struggle.

As much of a complete dumpster fire this is — I am willing to be patient and let a regime and head coaching staff see their vision through.
 
Phills14 said:
I hate this thread.

We will always be where we are if we change leadership every 2 years. I have not been impressed with Jackson thus far. His play calling makes me scratch my head and his use of time outs is maddening. But it helps to have good players too. We have some talent but the cupboard is still pretty bare.

I’m good with adding talent to the coaching staff and front office but not blowing it up. Do not do that!!!
Click to expand...

This just strikes me as a chicken / egg thing in all honesty. I'm not sure how you prove stability, on bad teams, keeps you where you are.

Most certainly, terrible hires, keeps you where you are.
Most certainly, terrible drafting, keeps you where you are.

I'm almost the opposite here. I think a lot of franchises actually hang on too long in the sake of continuity.

There's a lot of examples of a team firing a coaching prior to the end of a season, in which most thought he would be fired in the off-season of the year before.

I'm trying to think of a good example of an NFL coach not being fired after a handful of wins and then turning in to a great coach? Anyone?

I'm not sure how someone can watch this team and want anyone back. I'd be more inclined to consider bringing some of the FO back (if I have to retain someone) but Hue I've seen enough of.

Benching Kizer for a QB like Hogan is the type of move that screams someone is in over their head. If you look back to the comments I made last week, I said as much.

If Hue had any conviction / authority he would have just rode Kizer out to see if he could improve. Instead, he inserted a QB that established himself as the 3rd best on the roster (prior to Brock being cut) and thought playing him would make a difference.

The thing that I just can't get past with the FO is just how badly they missed on scouting BOTH Wentz and Watson. That is an unequivocal fucking disaster. And it wasn't enough to pass on both but these guys are so fucking stupid that they thought they would pounce on Wentz having an up and down rookie campaign to blow smoke out of their ass on their thoughts on what he would be. Someone in our FO had the nerve to say they didn't think Wentz could be a top 20 QB. TOP 20.......T-W-E-N-T-Y. That is the most absurd statement ever, without even taking in to consideration how good he is now. Our FO basically said "this guy won't even be a below average starting QB" and 12 months later, they look like complete buffoons.

Then, after fucking up once and not taking Wentz, they have Watson fall in to their laps at 12 and they trade him. They passed on their mulligan and watched ANOTHER QB turn in to what appears a franchise QB. To me, you're fire for that as a member of a front office.
 
Just to illustrate the point above....

Coaches with at least two full years with their current team:

Pete Carroll - 6-10, 10-6
Mike Tomlin - 10-6, 12-4
Bill Belichick - 5-11, 11-5
Marvin Lewis - 8-8, 8-8
Mike McCarthy - 8-8, 13-3
Sean Payton - 10-6, 7-9
John Harbaugh - 11-5, 9-7
Jason Garrett - 5-3, 8-8, 8-8
Ron Rivera - 6-10, 7-9
Chuck Pagano - 11-5, 11-5
Bruce Arians - 9-3, 10-6, 11-5
Jay Gruden - 4-12, 9-7
Andy Reid - 5-11, 11-5
Jim Caldwell - 11-5, 7-9
Bill Obrien - 9-7, 9-7
Mike Zimmer - 9-7, 11-5
Dan Quinn - 8-8, 11-5
Jack Del Rio - 7-9, 12-4
Mike Mularkey 2-7, 9-7, 2-2
Todd Bowels - 10-6, 5-11
John Fox - 6-10, 3-13

It's not surprising at all that the two terrible coaches on this list are Bowles and Fox. And yet they still won 15 and 9 games in their first two years combined.

19 of the 21 coaches won ATLEAST 8 games in one of their first two seasons. The only coaches who did not are Rivera (who won 6 and then 7) and Fox (Who won 6 and then 3).

Hue is an awful coach. He should be fired. The above data illustrates this pretty clearly......unless I am missing something here? Even coaches like Rivera that take over bad situations show the ability be competitive early on. He took over a team that was 2-14 and still managed to win 13 games his first two seasons.
 
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I'mWithDan said:
Just to illustrate the point above....

Coaches with at least two full years with their current team:

Pete Carroll - 6-10, 10-6
Mike Tomlin - 10-6, 12-4
Bill Belichick - 5-11, 11-5
Marvin Lewis - 8-8, 8-8
Mike McCarthy - 8-8, 13-3
Sean Payton - 10-6, 7-9
John Harbaugh - 11-5, 9-7
Jason Garrett - 5-3, 8-8, 8-8
Ron Rivera - 6-10, 7-9
Chuck Pagano - 11-5, 11-5
Bruce Arians - 9-3, 10-6, 11-5
Jay Gruden - 4-12, 9-7
Andy Reid - 5-11, 11-5
Jim Caldwell - 11-5, 7-9
Bill Obrien - 9-7, 9-7
Mike Zimmer - 9-7, 11-5
Dan Quinn - 8-8, 11-5
Jack Del Rio - 7-9, 12-4
Mike Mularkey 2-7, 9-7, 2-2
Todd Bowels - 10-6, 5-11
John Fox - 6-10, 3-13

It's not surprising at all that the two terrible coaches on this list are Bowles and Fox. And yet they still won 15 and 9 games in their first two years combined.

19 of the 21 coaches won ATLEAST 8 games in one of their first two seasons. The only coaches who did not are Rivera (who won 6 and then 7) and Fox (Who won 6 and then 3).

Hue is an awful coach. He should be fired. The above data illustrates this pretty clearly......unless I am missing something here? Even coaches like Rivera that take over bad situations show the ability be competitive early on. He took over a team that was 2-14 and still managed to win 13 games his first two seasons.
Click to expand...

This was my point before. There’s a long history of GOOD coaches and front offices winning within the first two years.

Ones that suck lose year one and year 2.

I’d rather ride these guys out too just because I don’t know whether they suck or if it’s a chemistry thing and maybe a switch will flip, but if they don’t hit on a QB by next year, Kizer’s not developing or they’re not winning games with a QB who isn’t the future...seat’s getting hot.
 
The Oi said:
This was my point before. There’s a long history of GOOD coaches and front offices winning within the first two years.

Ones that suck lose year one and year 2.

I’d rather ride these guys out too just because I don’t know whether they suck or if it’s a chemistry thing and maybe a switch will flip, but if they don’t hit on a QB by next year, Kizer’s not developing or they’re not winning games with a QB who isn’t the future...seat’s getting hot.
Click to expand...

Why do they deserve another year? What have they done? Trade draft picks? That's the answer at this point?

Even though that crowd seems to ignore that our two big draft day trades resulted in the OTHER team getting Carson Wentz and Deshaun Watson? The reason many are citing to keep them around is also a reason they should be fired.

We have a "QB" coach who didn't like two franchise QB's enough to demand we draft them? Or he did, and we ignored his request? Both are bad outcomes.

Also, there are coaches from the Panthers, Titans, Texans, Bengals, Saints, Redsksins, etc., etc., etc. on that list. It's TWO THIRDS of the league. Or are you trying to argue that nearly all the teams in the league have a long history of having good coaches and front offices?
 
I'mWithDan said:
Why do they deserve another year? What have they done? Trade draft picks? That's the answer at this point?

Even though that crowd seems to ignore that our two big draft day trades resulted in the OTHER team getting Carson Wentz and Deshaun Watson? The reason many are citing to keep them around is also a reason they should be fired.

We have a "QB" coach who didn't like two franchise QB's enough to demand we draft them? Or he did, and we ignored his request? Both are bad outcomes.

Also, there are coaches from the Panthers, Titans, Texans, Bengals, Saints, Redsksins, etc., etc., etc. on that list. It's TWO THIRDS of the league. Or are you trying to argue that nearly all the teams in the league have a long history of having good coaches and front offices?
Click to expand...

Think is makes sense to see how these young players all look together with another year under their belt and to see what they do with Kizer. Also...the turnover in the front office is exhausting. There’s almost no chance they’re going to get a coach that’s got a better reputation than Hue did coming in because of Haslam’s reputation for pulling the trigger on guys and because the Browns are so far away from competing.

If he’s completely lost the locker room he has to go, but if he still has guys’ attention, firing him and the FO for worse options make no sense.
 
How many games do you think Belichick would've won with our team last year? 3? Maybe 4? It's not a given that a good coach brings this team to the playoffs. We are the youngest team in the league and have close to zero offensive weapons. Keep in mind Hue's win total would jump to at least 3, if I remember correctly, if his kickers could make FGs.

I'm not calling for Hue's head yet. I agree with some of the other posters; Get someone to calls plays on offense and if still needed get an actual GM.
 
Phills14 said:
I hate this thread.

We will always be where we are if we change leadership every 2 years. I have not been impressed with Jackson thus far. His play calling makes me scratch my head and his use of time outs is maddening. But it helps to have good players too. We have some talent but the cupboard is still pretty bare.

I’m good with adding talent to the coaching staff and front office but not blowing it up. Do not do that!!!
Click to expand...
Plus 1.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
I'mWithDan said:
This just strikes me as a chicken / egg thing in all honesty. I'm not sure how you prove stability, on bad teams, keeps you where you are.

Most certainly, terrible hires, keeps you where you are.
Most certainly, terrible drafting, keeps you where you are.

I'm almost the opposite here. I think a lot of franchises actually hang on too long in the sake of continuity.

There's a lot of examples of a team firing a coaching prior to the end of a season, in which most thought he would be fired in the off-season of the year before.

I'm trying to think of a good example of an NFL coach not being fired after a handful of wins and then turning in to a great coach? Anyone?

I'm not sure how someone can watch this team and want anyone back. I'd be more inclined to consider bringing some of the FO back (if I have to retain someone) but Hue I've seen enough of.

Benching Kizer for a QB like Hogan is the type of move that screams someone is in over their head. If you look back to the comments I made last week, I said as much.

If Hue had any conviction / authority he would have just rode Kizer out to see if he could improve. Instead, he inserted a QB that established himself as the 3rd best on the roster (prior to Brock being cut) and thought playing him would make a difference.

The thing that I just can't get past with the FO is just how badly they missed on scouting BOTH Wentz and Watson. That is an unequivocal fucking disaster. And it wasn't enough to pass on both but these guys are so fucking stupid that they thought they would pounce on Wentz having an up and down rookie campaign to blow smoke out of their ass on their thoughts on what he would be. Someone in our FO had the nerve to say they didn't think Wentz could be a top 20 QB. TOP 20.......T-W-E-N-T-Y. That is the most absurd statement ever, without even taking in to consideration how good he is now. Our FO basically said "this guy won't even be a below average starting QB" and 12 months later, they look like complete buffoons.

Then, after fucking up once and not taking Wentz, they have Watson fall in to their laps at 12 and they trade him. They passed on their mulligan and watched ANOTHER QB turn in to what appears a franchise QB. To me, you're fire for that as a member of a front office.
Click to expand...
You missed the point on why Hugh glued Kizer's ass to the bench. It's not because he thinks Hogan is better. He did it to allow Kizer to take a step back from being force fed and overwhelmed, and to let his body rest for a week after all the beatings he has been taking. Hugh did it to help Kizer take the next step forward.

We'll see next week if it did any good.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
Give me mike Shannahan. At least we’ll win 7-9 games a year and have a killer run game.
 
I'mWithDan said:
Why do they deserve another year? What have they done? Trade draft picks? That's the answer at this point?

Even though that crowd seems to ignore that our two big draft day trades resulted in the OTHER team getting Carson Wentz and Deshaun Watson? The reason many are citing to keep them around is also a reason they should be fired.

We have a "QB" coach who didn't like two franchise QB's enough to demand we draft them? Or he did, and we ignored his request? Both are bad outcomes.

Also, there are coaches from the Panthers, Titans, Texans, Bengals, Saints, Redsksins, etc., etc., etc. on that list. It's TWO THIRDS of the league. Or are you trying to argue that nearly all the teams in the league have a long history of having good coaches and front offices?
Click to expand...

I think Hue likely had a very prominent role in QB evaluations. So I put most of that on him rather than the FO.
 
What about possibly going with a real out of the box option, like Jim Tressel or Urban Meyer?
 
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