• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

Hue Jackson and Todd Haley Fired

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
I hate Hue, but one thing I want to state....

He might be a shitty coach, but the Browns-led South actually won the game.

So if they were such a mess, that says more for how bad John Fox (has taken two teams to the super bowl) must’ve been...
 
Randolphkeys said:
I think it's a huge assumption that the Senior Bowl chose to skip over Hue. I believe the press reports that this was an internal decision by the Browns. One thing is clear: Dorsey and Highsmith plan on running this draft, and they didn't need Hue becoming attached to prospects and disrupting their flow.
Click to expand...

Why do you believe and not believe the things you do and don’t here?

At this point I’m far more likely to believe worst case scenarios about Hue if there’s the slightest shred of evidence behind them.
 
Randolphkeys said:
I think it's a huge assumption that the Senior Bowl chose to skip over Hue. I believe the press reports that this was an internal decision by the Browns. One thing is clear: Dorsey and Highsmith plan on running this draft, and they didn't need Hue becoming attached to prospects and disrupting their flow.
Click to expand...

I overreacted. Been known to do it. :conf (11):
 
Randolphkeys said:
I think it's a huge assumption that the Senior Bowl chose to skip over Hue. I believe the press reports that this was an internal decision by the Browns. One thing is clear: Dorsey and Highsmith plan on running this draft, and they didn't need Hue becoming attached to prospects and disrupting their flow.
Click to expand...

You may be right, or it may be CYA from the Browns. But even assuming you're correct that it was the Browns' decision, Hue already was on record saying that he would like to coach the Senior Bowl, and the announcement that the Browns wouldn't be doing that coaching didn't come from him. So it pretty clearly was a decision made by the new GM against Hue's own wishes, and people who follow the league know that. So there are two possible narratives: 1) Hue is so incompetent that the league wouldn't let him coach the Senior Bowl, or 2) the Browns GM refused to let Hue coach the Senior Bowl despite the league's invitation, and despite Hue's own publicly-expressed wishes in that regard. Either way, it is a really bad look for the Browns.

Also, if it was the Browns' decision, I think it was probably a different reason than a desire for Hue not to become attached to certain players. After all, if Dorsey is making the draft-day decisions, he's going to pick who he wants, regardless of any attachment Hue may have developed.

I think it more likely that (assuming it was the Browns' decision) Dorsey viewed Hue coaching the Senior Bowl as a waste of time that a 1-31 coach cannot excuse. In other words "focus on your own damn job of making this team better." In a sense, it's a way Dorsey can punish Hue given that Jimmy has otherwise tied his hands.

In any case...toxic as hell.
 
Last edited:
The Human Q-Tip said:
You may be right, or it may be CYA from the Browns. But even assuming you're correct that it was the Browns' decision, Hue already was on record saying that he would like to coach the Senior Bowl, and the announcement that the Browns wouldn't be doing that coaching didn't come from him. So it pretty clearly was a decision made by the new GM against Hue's own wishes, and people who follow the league know that. So there are two possible narratives: 1) Hue is so incompetent that the league wouldn't let him coach the Senior Bowl, or 2) the Browns GM refused to let Hue coach the Senior Bowl despite the league's invitation, and despite Hue's own publicly-expressed wishes in that regard. Either way, it is a really bad look for the Browns.

Also, if it was the Browns' decision, I think it was probably a different reason than a desire for Hue not to become attached to certain players. After all, if Dorsey is making the draft-day decisions, he's going to pick who he wants, regardless of any attachment Hue may have developed.

I think it more likely that (assuming it was the Browns' decision) Dorsey viewed Hue coaching the Senior Bowl as a waste of time that a 1-31 coach cannot excuse. In other words "focus on your own damn job of making this team better." In a sense, it's a way Dorsey can punish Hue given that Jimmy has otherwise tied his hands.

In any case...toxic as hell.
Click to expand...

I think it's a really good look for the Browns. Hue is (for now) the coach, not the GM. Their draft records speak to this: Hue is down a 2nd and 3rd on Kizer and Kessler. These aren't "it's only a 2nd, we can move on". A 2nd round is not some sort of tax that we should be paying annually to get our QB flier. These were guys Hue was EXCITED about and apparently his voice made them his choice. He doesn't need a choice, that isn't his job.

I am happy to hear that Dorsey told Haslam to tell Hue "tough shit, you aren't coaching that". It's just a sign that the personnel power is in the right hands, the hands of someone qualified.
 
natedagg said:
I think it's a really good look for the Browns. Hue is (for now) the coach, not the GM. Their draft records speak to this: Hue is down a 2nd and 3rd on Kizer and Kessler. These aren't "it's only a 2nd, we can move on". A 2nd round is not some sort of tax that we should be paying annually to get our QB flier. These were guys Hue was EXCITED about and apparently his voice made them his choice. He doesn't need a choice, that isn't his job.

I am happy to hear that Dorsey told Haslam to tell Hue "tough shit, you aren't coaching that". It's just a sign that the personnel power is in the right hands, the hands of someone qualified.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between "I'm happy Hue isn't coaching the Senior Bowl", and "it is a good look for the Browns if the GM won't let Hue coach the Senior Bowl."

Coaches are supposed to coach the Senior Bowl. It is supposed to be an advantage for the team in question. I've never even heard of another team turning it down. Have you?

I think for the GM to tell a coach that's he's not allowed to coach the Senior Bowl despite his publicly stated wish to do so is 1) embarassing for the HC, and 2) suggests the coach is on such thin ice that's he's not permitted to do what every other coach in the league gets to do if asked.

Now, I'm personally fine with that because I can't stand Hue. But if you're a coach or coordinator considering an offer to join Hue's staff...it's not exactly a confidence-builder.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
I think for the GM to tell a coach that's he's not allowed to coach the Senior Bowl despite his publicly stated wish to do so is 1) embarassing for the HC, and 2) suggests the coach is on such thin ice that's he's not permitted to do what every other coach in the league gets to do if asked.

Now, I'm personally fine with that because I can't stand Hue. But if you're a coach or coordinator considering an offer to join Hue's staff...it's not exactly a confidence-builder.
Click to expand...

Yes. Dorsey's tree isn't getting pissed on by Hue. That's Dorsey's territory, and yes, Hue is on thin ice.

There will be an OC out there who will gladly take the job because they've never been an OC, never called the plays, never had so much control or such a high title, etc. In fact, it could be an excellent fast track selling point that Hue could be gone.

I just like that Hue isn't coaching that game because Dorsey said so. Now Hue can get back to reviewing the tape on why there have been 6 iPhones released since the Browns have had a win on a Sunday.
 
The Oi said:
Why do you believe and not believe the things you do and don’t here?

At this point I’m far more likely to believe worst case scenarios about Hue if there’s the slightest shred of evidence behind them.
Click to expand...

So when you read the news, you never believe the article and instead imagine the worst possible scenario?

With the way the world has turned the past year, I get it. In every major world event, there's two different news sources reporting seemingly two different causes and effects of each event. We live in a time with limited absolute facts.

But think about it from Phil Savage's perspective. The guy has rebuilt his reputation as director of the Senior Bowl after hitting a professional low point... fired from the Browns after an unsuccessful run as GM. Why would he set up an objective system that works at the Senior Bowl that doesn't choose favorites... just to slight the franchise that once slighted him?

That sounds petty, and would be a bad look for Savage. I don't think Savage made the call. I think Hue's offensive assistant coaches are about to go through upheaval with lots of turnover, and the Senior Bowl would create an early deadline on finishing the revamping.
 
natedagg said:
There will be an OC out there who will gladly take the job because they've never been an OC, never called the plays, never had so much control or such a high title, etc. In fact, it could be an excellent fast track selling point that Hue could be gone.
Click to expand...

Right. The inexperienced guy who isn't offered an OC job by any other team may come here because hey, it's a job. I get that. But is that really who we'd like to bring in, though? And in terms of "fast track"...again, if this is that inexperienced guy who has never before been an OC, I think it extremely unlikely that he or anyone else believes that he'll be elevated all the way to interim head coach if Hugh gets canned.

Unless we somehow manage to snag a veteran OC who appears able to assume the intermi HC job if Hue gets canned (and Hue would never sign off on such a guy for precisely that reason), Williams will be the interim HC if Hue gets canned.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
Right. The inexperienced guy who isn't offered an OC job by any other team may come here because hey, it's a job. I get that. But is that really who we'd like to bring in, though? And in terms of "fast track"...again, if this is that inexperienced guy who has never before been an OC, I think it extremely unlikely that he or anyone else believes that he'll be elevated all the way to interim head coach if Hugh gets canned.

Unless we somehow manage to snag a veteran OC who appears able to assume the intermi HC job if Hue gets canned (and Hue would never sign off on such a guy for precisely that reason), Williams will be the interim HC if Hue gets canned.
Click to expand...

Huh? "It's a job" is not what I said. "It's a job promotion" is what I said. I don't see why we wouldn't want certain assistant coaches to try out the OC position, including calling plays. That's how it works: we get an up-and-come-er OR we get a guy who has had success as an OC, who is jockeying for position to be head coach after Hue is canned.

At no point would a guy who has never called plays on offense be elevated to Interim Head Coach. That would be very unlikely, and it isn't what I said. I said there's a fast track appeal to being our OC, it was an unrelated point to the n00b OC promotion point.

I don't think Hue gets to "sign off" on the OC, maybe I just missed it? Is it fact that the hiring of that position is his decision? If he does, he certainly would want a great OC so that he doesn't get fired. So I don't get your point there: are you arguing that Hue would deliberately pick a worse OC to preserve his job? Like somehow having a worse OC is going to help him keep his job?

Williams might be the IHC if Hue gets canned, so yes, you've made a rational point. The rest is just debating to debate, nitpick to nitpick; take that shit to Gouri bro.
 
natedagg said:
I don't think Hue gets to "sign off" on the OC, maybe I just missed it?
Click to expand...

Well, that's the interesting point. Here's what Hue said publicly earlier this week:

On Monday, Jackson was asked about the report that Dorsey would be hiring the offensive coordinator.

“I really appreciate John’s expertise,” Jackson said. “He has seen a lot of different ways to do things, and I will lean on him for things, but I don’t think John is making a decision on if we are going to have a coordinator or not.”

Jackson also was asked whether hiring an offensive coordinator falls within the responsibility of the coach.

“I would think so, thank you,” Jackson said with a laugh.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...t-pressure-point-for-hue-jackson-john-dorsey/

It may very well end up being a situation where they both have to agree to the hire, but I can't envision a situation where Dorsey forces someone Hue doesn't want on him as offensive coordinator. The guy is going to be working for Hue directly, so Hue pretty much has to take the lead in hiring him. If there is one thing Hue always takes care of, it's Hue himself, and he's obviously no dummy when it comes to franchise politics. So I'd be shocked if the OC he hires is someone Hue himself sees as a potential replacement . My guess is that he'll take some young position coach somewhere who has never before been an OC, and who lacks the experience to step in as interim HC. The only potential interim HC on Hue's staff is going to be Williams. I think Hue will make sure of that.

Is it fact that the hiring of that position is his decision? If he does, he certainly would want a great OC so that he doesn't get fired. So I don't get your point there: are you arguing that Hue would deliberately pick a worse OC to preserve his job? Like somehow having a worse OC is going to help him keep his job?
Click to expand...

I don't think Hue himself believes, for one second, that he really needs an offensive coordinator. He was free to hire one in either of the last two seasons, and could give only that ridiculous reason why he didn't when pressed on it. Hue believes that the team went 0-16 not because of coaching, or because it lacked an offensive coordinator, but because his players sucked. And that he'd win with better players just fine, without an offensive coordinator.

In other words, his attempt to hire an offensive coordinator is a bone he threw to Jimmy, and perhaps Dorsey, indicating that he was really willing to try to improve his coaching staff. But I don't think he believes it for one second, and wants to continue doing as much of the OC role as he can himself, while still appeasing Jimmy that he made "a change".

So, I absolutely believe that Hue does not want to hire some stud OC who will have power, and potential overshadow any success Hue believes he'd get anyway with the right players. He'll hire some lackey who isn't a threat, or some young guy who has talent but just not enough experience.​
 
Last edited:
serious question how many wins does Hue need next year to keep his job in 2019? I would have to think its at least 6 right?
 
bob2the2nd said:
serious question how many wins does Hue need next year to keep his job in 2019? I would have to think its at least 6 right?
Click to expand...

Well, in 2015-16, he went 1-15, and kept his job. In 16-17, he went 0-16, and kept his job.

So, I think if he goes -1 and 17, he should be okay.
 
bob2the2nd said:
serious question how many wins does Hue need next year to keep his job in 2019? I would have to think its at least 6 right?
Click to expand...
7

@ minimum 3-5 through the first 8 games
And .500 ball to finish the year
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-14: "Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:14: " Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey."
Top