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2018 NBA Draft - June 21

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howler1313 said:
As someone who hasn't watched JJJ play much at all, does he project to finish at a high level in the paint amongst NBA bigs? And has he shown promise as a passer with the ball in his hands?

Based on nothing more than we need a defensive big and Dan Gilbert (biggest MSU fan) is running the team, he's probably near the top of our board and I'd say we're very likely to get him or Miles Bridges depending on draft position.
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This is exactly what's keeping him from being in the top 5 discussion. It's hard to say just how much of a load he can handle offensively just because of the role they use him in at MSU. The combine and workout season will be pretty big for his draft stock if he actually has more offensive skill than he's shown. I'm not super optimistic with his playmaking abilities. He seems to get sped up with the ball alot and has a pretty high TOV% for his role. But I think he can do everything that's needed for a floor-spacing big in that he can shoot some, attack closeouts, make straight line drives, and finish fairly well. I doubt he ever averages a ton of points, but he can be a "star in his role" offensively I think.

howler1313 said:
Nah, I have a feeling JJJ and Miles are both way up on our board because they go to MSU. Gilbert's MSU ties are all over, and we've already had one local Michigan guy that we picked when he caught Gilbert's eye. Normally I'd say I'm grasping at straws over something like this, but Gilbert isn't exactly the most rational guy.
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While I am fully expecting Miles Bridges to end up on the Cavs if we keep the pick, I don't think Gilbert had hardly anything to do with the Kay Felder pick. Maybe the fact that he's from Michigan made him more willing to fork up the money to buy that pick, but the primary connection wasn't Gilbert. I don't know how well known this is, but one of the main guys in the Cavs' college scouting department was an assistant coach for Oakland University for 2 of the 3 years Felder spent there.
 
3 Ball...GOT IT said:
This is exactly what's keeping him from being in the top 5 discussion. It's hard to say just how much of a load he can handle offensively just because of the role they use him in at MSU. The combine and workout season will be pretty big for his draft stock if he actually has more offensive skill than he's shown. I'm not super optimistic with his playmaking abilities. He seems to get sped up with the ball alot and has a pretty high TOV% for his role. But I think he can do everything that's needed for a floor-spacing big in that he can shoot some, attack closeouts, make straight line drives, and finish fairly well. I doubt he ever averages a ton of points, but he can be a "star in his role" offensively I think.



While I am fully expecting Miles Bridges to end up on the Cavs if we keep the pick, I don't think Gilbert had hardly anything to do with the Kay Felder pick. Maybe the fact that he's from Michigan made him more willing to fork up the money to buy that pick, but the primary connection wasn't Gilbert. I don't know how well known this is, but one of the main guys in the Cavs' college scouting department was an assistant coach for Oakland University for 2 of the 3 years Felder spent there.
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I think Gilbet was definitely enamoured with felder and a big driver to buying and using the pick
 
Adam said:
I think Gilbet was definitely enamoured with felder and a big driver to buying and using the pick
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Agree, I just don't think it would have happened without Brandon Weems being in the FO. We'll never know though, and I think we can all agree that he will always see MSU guys through his own biased lense.
 
Shai Gilgeous Alexander vaulted up to 11th on nbadraft.net's mock draft. Not sure I've seen him mentioned in here yet. He's a bit old for a freshman (turns 20 this summer), but has a really interesting all-around skillset for a combo guard. His steal rate is among the highest ever for a freshman, he has solid (albeit unspectacular) point guard skills, and he's flashed some legit all-around scoring ability in the last few games (24, 21, and 18 points) to bring his points per game average into the double digits. He's really rail thin, even by college standards, so a bit of a project in that sense. But the potential is there.

 
If Gilbert having a bias towards MSU means we end up drafting Jackson it will be all worth it, imo. The fact that he isn't talked about more in the media is wild considering how good he is.
 
Personally I am obsessed with Trae Young. The numbers are jaw dropping. Last guy to put up numbers at a major college as a freshman like this was Durant. I get 6'2 vs 6'10 but still, jaw dropping stats.
 
I advise people to watch the full game agains Maccabi and tell me hows Doncic inability to create offense against athletic guys with similar size isnt a problem.

Deandre Kane completely locked him down and he is 3 inches shorter. His lack of quickness and first step is a problem if he cant bully his way to the basket.
 
Nathan S said:
Shai Gilgeous Alexander vaulted up to 11th on nbadraft.net's mock draft. Not sure I've seen him mentioned in here yet. He's a bit old for a freshman (turns 20 this summer), but has a really interesting all-around skillset for a combo guard. His steal rate is among the highest ever for a freshman, he has solid (albeit unspectacular) point guard skills, and he's flashed some legit all-around scoring ability in the last few games (24, 21, and 18 points) to bring his points per game average into the double digits. He's really rail thin, even by college standards, so a bit of a project in that sense. But the potential is there.

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Steals tend to translate very well from college to the NBA. I know a lot of team analytics say it is really one of the only transferable defensive stats from college to pro. This kid could be interesting.

How is the rest of his defensive game?
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
I advise people to watch the full game agains Maccabi and tell me hows Doncic inability to create offense against athletic guys with similar size isnt a problem.

Deandre Kane completely locked him down and he is 3 inches shorter. His lack of quickness and first step is a problem if he cant bully his way to the basket.
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His jumpshot will need to be fire to keep defenders on their toes.
 
3 Ball...GOT IT said:
Agree, I just don't think it would have happened without Brandon Weems being in the FO. We'll never know though, and I think we can all agree that he will always see MSU guys through his own biased lense.
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I can't remember where the article was, but IIRC Gilbert was turned on to Felder by Brandon Weems, then got obsessed after watching tape of him. Regardless, Dan will do what he does and I'm already steeling myself to the Cavs drafting Miles Bridges anywhere after the 7th pick or so.
 
jking948 said:
Steals tend to translate very well from college to the NBA. I know a lot of team analytics say it is really one of the only transferable defensive stats from college to pro. This kid could be interesting.

How is the rest of his defensive game?
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Not a question I'm prepared to answer...I'd guess mediocre, naively, simply because he's not big enough to have an impact in the paint. I'm sure he makes some plays with his length alone though.

Sir'Dom Pointer said:
I advise people to watch the full game agains Maccabi and tell me hows Doncic inability to create offense against athletic guys with similar size isnt a problem.

Deandre Kane completely locked him down and he is 3 inches shorter. His lack of quickness and first step is a problem if he cant bully his way to the basket.
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It depends what you mean by "a problem."

Against typical defenders, Doncic can and does score in isolation. If there were data available, I have little doubt it would show that he's among the most prolific iso scorers in Euroleague (albeit, in part because iso plays are generally a rare thing in Euro basketball).

Against defensive specialists like Kane, Doncic struggles to score in isolation. That's a problem, perhaps, if you're hoping for Doncic to average 25 ppg right out of the gate, but really only a handful of players in the NBA have any business trying to go 1-on-1 against top defensive players, and none of them are teenagers.

EDIT: Also, I'd happily watch full games if there was a (free) way to do so. I don't think there is though, right?
 
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Sorry I have to do it: he's Paul Pierce :chuckle:
He'll just use size and guile to get to the spot he wants on the floor where he can get a jumper off.
 
Pioneer10 said:
Sorry I have to do it: he's Paul Pierce :chuckle:
He'll just use size and guile to get to the spot he wants on the floor where he can get a jumper off.
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Can see the similarity from a scoring perspective, but Doncic is already a better point guard than Pierce ever was, and could end up among the all-time greats in that regard. That's what really makes him unique.
 
howler1313 said:
I can't remember where the article was, but IIRC Gilbert was turned on to Felder by Brandon Weems, then got obsessed after watching tape of him. Regardless, Dan will do what he does and I'm already steeling myself to the Cavs drafting Miles Bridges anywhere after the 7th pick or so.
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Having watched a LOT of MSU ball this season, as is mandatory for my position as captain on the Jaren Jackson Draft Raft©, Miles Bridges is far from the worst we could do outside of the top 7. He's a fantastic athlete and a great ballhandler for his size and he is more than capable of playing competent defense. He's far from a dead eye from beyond the arc but he is capable of hitting the open 3 and his mechanics are sound, so I could easily see him becoming a competent shooter with time. Most importantly he's a high character guy, just like Jackson, and probably a more natural leader. Miles Bridges is a damn good basketball player and a fantastic draft choice in the 8-10 range.
 
Who do you guys think are the most cerebral players in this class? I think most of the excellent players that were taken later in the lottery are usually the guys wit high bball understanding, this is how their “lack” of physical (or just displayed) tools and skills are cowered. Talent alone is very important, but smart players can be really useful from the start even on such a high level contender that we are. San Antonio has incredible in depth evaluations of their targets..
Bamba top3, Doncic looks smart(definitely on Offense), but probably top3 (saw some projections with him falling to 5...), Jaren Jackson shows incredible ways of influencing the game in different ways, Trae seems to understand a lot about the game and what to do.
Who else do you see as a smart player that could be available without top 5 selection?
 
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