2017-18 Cleveland Indians Offseason

Alpoe said:

We were barely over .500 when we acquired Bruce. Losing him and Santana can't be taken for granted. We do have a stacked team, but I think another hitter or two would go a long way to win the whole thing. You can't count on guys like Brantley and Chisenhall to get the job done.

If this postseason showed anything, you need offense to win.

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If you're trying to think transitively to what this team is like a calendar year later, you're going to end up way off the beaten path.

That's simply not how it works in baseball.


I'm certain they're not done adding another piece, but the belief that it has to be some sort of major addition to make up for Brantley and Chisenhall's inconsistencies is likely not true.

Bradley Zimmer could make up that difference by himself if healthy, Greg Allen, Yandy Diaz, Tyler Naquin and others all could take their game up a level.

Where they were at the point of acquiring Bruce last year isn't relevant.

This team's offense is nowhere near the level of the other top teams. That's not even an argument. Sure, if they make the playoffs, anything can happen. That doesn't make it likely. Michael Martinez could have hit a home run in the 10th inning of Game 7. Instead, he did what Michael Martinez always does.

Lining them up against Houston, the Indians have an edge in rotation depth and a slight edge in the bullpen. Houston's lineup puts the Indians to shame. Same with New York. The Indians have a superior rotation to the Yankees top to bottom, but are at a disadvantage in the bullpen as well as the lineup.

But it is what it is. There's no more money to fix it. Have to hope one of these kids blows up. Maybe Zimmer will figure it out. Or Diaz.

OptimusPrime said:

This team's offense is nowhere near the level of the other top teams. That's not even an argument. Sure, if they make the playoffs, anything can happen. That doesn't make it likely. Michael Martinez could have hit a home run in the 10th inning of Game 7. Instead, he did what Michael Martinez always does.

Lining them up against Houston, the Indians have an edge in rotation depth and a slight edge in the bullpen. Houston's lineup puts the Indians to shame. Same with New York. The Indians have a superior rotation to the Yankees top to bottom, but are at a disadvantage in the bullpen as well as the lineup.

But it is what it is. There's no more money to fix it. Have to hope one of these kids blows up. Maybe Zimmer will figure it out. Or Diaz.

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I agree we just can't keep up offensively with the top teams. Our pitching is what will give us a chance but I think its a huge mistake to stand pat after losing Santana and dare I say Shaw and Smith. The Indians have alot of work to do and i dont know if they're going to do much.

Sigh.

Every year.

AZ_ said:

If you're trying to think transitively to what this team is like a calendar year later, you're going to end up way off the beaten path.

That's simply not how it works in baseball.


I'm certain they're not done adding another piece, but the belief that it has to be some sort of major addition to make up for Brantley and Chisenhall's inconsistencies is likely not true.

Bradley Zimmer could make up that difference by himself if healthy, Greg Allen, Yandy Diaz, Tyler Naquin and others all could take their game up a level.

Where they were at the point of acquiring Bruce last year isn't relevant.

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Thoughts on Alonso?

2017 Indians

6th in Runs scored
9th in Hits
2nd in Doubles
15th in HR
5th in Avg
2nd in OBP
3rd in SLG
2nd in OPS

"No where near the top teams"

Urban said:

2017 Indians

6th in Runs scored
9th in Hits
2nd in Doubles
15th in HR
5th in Avg
2nd in OBP
3rd in SLG
2nd in OPS

"No where near the top teams"

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Um, it's 2018.

OptimusPrime said:

Um, it's 2018.

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So we subtract our All Star caliber 1B for a 2017 All Star 1B, let's say he matches 75% of Santana's overall production?

And we lose 43 games worth of Bruce for a healthy RF platoon and healthy Brantley?

How much do those numbers change much?

Urban said:

So we subtract our All Star caliber 1B for a 2017 All Star 1B, let's say he matches 75% of Santana's overall production?

And we lose 43 games worth of Bruce for a healthy RF platoon and healthy Brantley?

How much do those numbers change much?

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How much do those numbers mean? They play in an awful division that will be even worse this year.

But to humor you, you also lose Austin Jackson who played over his head last year. And Edwin is a year older. And he'll have less protection behind him. And there's no such thing as a healthy Brantley. You may not get the 90 games out of him this year that you got last year. So I don't know how much worse they'll be, but they won't be better. How does that stack up with Houston's offense? And New York adding Stanton? And Washington? Chicago? Los Angeles?

I do agree on one thing, Brantley is cooked.

Urban said:

So we subtract our All Star caliber 1B for a 2017 All Star 1B, let's say he matches 75% of Santana's overall production?

And we lose 43 games worth of Bruce for a healthy RF platoon and healthy Brantley?

How much do those numbers change much?

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Speaking to reason doesn’t appear to be working.

AZ_ said:

Speaking to reason doesn’t appear to be working.

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That's right. I'll be sure to place great value in numbers they racked up against the Tigers and White Sox this year. I know it meant a lot last year.

OptimusPrime said:

How much do those numbers mean? They play in an awful division that will be even worse this year.

But to humor you, you also lose Austin Jackson who played over his head last year. And Edwin is a year older. And he'll have less protection behind him. And there's no such thing as a healthy Brantley. You may not get the 90 games out of him this year that you got last year. So I don't know how much worse they'll be, but they won't be better. How does that stack up with Houston's offense? And New York adding Stanton? And Washington? Chicago? Los Angeles?

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Why are you bringing up Washington? Their numbers clearly don't mean anything because they play in a worse division than us. Hell, the AL West's 2-5 teams only had 17 more total wins than the AL Central's bottom 2-5 teams. I think our offense is better than Chicago's.

Indians played really bad vs. the NL but went 22-12 (.647) vs the AL East and 24-8 (.750) vs. the AL West. Both above our overall winning percentage of .630 Regular season they went 5-1 vs. Houston, 4-2 vs. New York, and 3-3 vs. Boston.

Less protection behind EE? Because he won't have Bruce for 40 games? Sure.

So the Yankees, Astros, Nats, Dodgers, and maybe the Cubs have a better offense than the Indians. I'll agree with that. Is the difference "so insurmountable" that the Indians have no chance at beating them? Fuck no. Our offense is still very good. Combined with our elite rotation, Andrew Miller, and Cody Allen and this team is absolutely a Top 5 World Series contender.

Urban said:

Less protection behind EE? Because he won't have Bruce for 40 games? Sure.

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Or Santana.

Urban said:

So the Yankees, Astros, Nats, Dodgers, and maybe the Cubs have a better offense than the Indians. I'll agree with that. Is the difference "so insurmountable" that the Indians have no chance at beating them? Fuck no. Our offense is still very good. Combined with our elite rotation, Andrew Miller, and Cody Allen and this team is absolutely a Top 5 World Series contender.

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Ok, well those are the top teams. I don't care if the Indians lineup is better than Oakland or Atlanta. And I didn't say they have no chance of beating them. I just said they are at a disadvantage.

OptimusPrime said:

That's right. I'll be sure to place great value in numbers they racked up against the Tigers and White Sox this year. I know it meant a lot last year.

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So, I’ll bypass the fact you’re just shooting from the hip with bullshit here...

Too bad they won’t be facing them again this year.