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2023-24 Regular Season Thread

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Rich said:
Man, Philly was switching small dudes onto Mobley and just baiting him into trying to do something and he was just falling over and landing out of bounds.

If you think he and Garland aren't gonna get targeted and exposed in the post-season again, you're dreaming.

Mobley's presence is absolutely crushing the offense. It's proven in any type of metric you wanna look at, but it's pretty easily observed just watching the game when its on.

But in his 997 minutes this season, the Cavs have an offensive rating of 113.0 with Mobley ON the court.

That would be good for 24th in the league, just ahead of the Pistons.

With him off the court, 1654 minutes, it's 119.7. Almost 7 full points better.

The Cavs are 5 points better with him OFF the court. And considering we have plenty of minutes to go on this point, this statement below is absolutely just wishcasting.




You talk about the schedule but Philadelphia without Embiid is a bad basketball team. They're 4-10. And two of those 4 are against us in these last 4 games.
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We didn't lose to either the Magic or the Sixers by 20 points. They were close games, without Mitchell, where you can point to any number of things beyond the control of either Garland or Mobley that caused us to lose. You can draw a straight line to missed free throws, or awful play on the part of LeVert/Niang, or the bench units in general without Garland.

In terms of postseason matchups, there are like 6-8 players in the entire NBA who you can bank on winning their postseason matchup every time. The question with a guy like Mobley is whether he gives you an advantage against Tatum, Giannis, and Butler that you won't get from anyone else on the roster? Can Garland create offense when OG, Suggs, or Derrick White are assigned to Mitchell? That is what's going to determine whether the Cavs advance, or not.

I'm not buying the wooden nickle that is common currency on this board that guys like Wade, Merrill, and CPJ (who is just insanely overrated here) will be just as, or even more effective than Garland and Mobley in the playoffs based on games played against teams we won't even face in the playoffs.

Our starters have played less than a thid of the season together this year and fans are calling for franchise altering changes in February. It's crazy. Anyone who thought there weren't going to be bumps in the road and that we'd seamlessly re-insert Garland and Mobley didn't have realistic expectations. We instituted a completely different offense when they were out. Now include the reality that Mobley is a 22-year old big man who still has a ways to go in terms of development, and it's difficult to understand the fan reaction.
 
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Mobley has to play to get better. But he us 22. Allen is near peak age, and he has elevated his aggression inside. I think I see Mobley trying to do some of the same things, but the timing and strength are not quite there.. he also needs to better understand when to pass out and to whom.. that's part of the process..

But the book on the Cavs is " punch first, punch often". It appears to me the team works harder on both ends than say Boston, but the physical bully ball takes a toll on them.. Boston for example doesn't play a lot of skinny guys, so I think the can handle the contact.. thier weakest player is probably Holiday, and he is a pretty solid defender..
 
I don’t think fan reaction is difficult to understand. During the 17-1 span there wasn’t much to criticize and that frustrated a lot of people who don’t like the team for whatever reason. Now that we’ve gone 1-3 it’s a golden opportunity that can’t be missed. There’s always a danger that we could go on another winning streak so it’s important not to lose any time and get shots in while the ducks are flying.

17-1: doesn’t matter, we’ll lose in the first round anyway.
1-3: see I was right all along, the losing is proof we’ll lose in the first round.

Completely understandable. We were on track to win the Finals last year until our idiot coach and soft players blew it. Last year’s playoff disappointment ruins any chance we have for success for seven generations.

We’ll be fine though once we get rid of most of the current roster and let the future stars get minutes: CPJ, Bates, Travers, Brobley & Nance.

2nd place in the East just isn’t good enough. For some. I’m enjoying the season, but I’m an idiot.
 

Dr No said:
I knew the "the schedule was weak" argument was coming before DG & Mobley came back and I refuted it more than a month ago. The schedule wasn't a murderers row, but we beat plenty of solid teams, many of them on the road, and many were over by halftime. If the issue is schedule, we haven't beaten a good team with Garland & Mobley playing a significant part since we smoked the Kings on Feb. 5, when both were still on minutes restrictions. In fact, that is the only win against a decent team in the entire month of February. In the last 4 we have 2 bad losses against the Sixers, a loss on our home floor to the mediocre Magic, and a squeak-by win at home over the Bulls. The schedule doesn't get any easier than our last 4.

You say we aren't winning a playoff series without DG & Mobley. Why not? Defense and shooting win. Toughness and physicality win. Chemistry and teamwork win. We all believe these young guys are talented. But maybe the talent gap isn't as big as we'd imagined. The Cavs have put tens of millions of dollars, hundreds of games, and oceans of ink hyping & developing these two guys as special. I bought it. I'd still like to buy it. But maybe they aren't that special? Maybe we ought to treat them like everyone else not named Donovan instead of making he rest of the team fit in around them?

And style does effect all of those things. Shooters shoot better when they know when and from where their shots are coming. They shoot better when they've had their hands on the ball from it being passed around. They shoot better when the delivery is on time and in the pocket. And let us not forget of those 10 missed free-throws, Mobley was responsible for 4.

No one expected the streak to continue forever. But I didn't expect what we've seen over the last few weeks. We are playing worse. Wham shared the numbers that back up what we are all seeing with our eyes. The fun, winning, basketball of January is gone. My concern is it isn't coming back - because it can't come back.
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Name the playoff teams we beat during that stretch.
 
If NBA.com numbers are correct...

Our starting 5 while DG and Mobley were injured had a Net Rating of +19.6 (Micthell, Okoro, Strus, Wade, and Allen)

For reference, this is better than any other teams starting 5. Denver starters is +13.2, Bucks +15.3, Celts +11.7, Clippers +12.6

Guess how many minutes that Cavs lineup has played since DG/Mobleys return... 17 minutes. SEVENTEEN minutes in 11 games. Best lineup in NBA.

I haven't bashed JB at all this year outside of playing Niang too much... but this is a fireable offense. I get that they aren't going to start together anymore, but how is this lineup not getting extended run together every single game?
 
From the latest recap:
  • Mobley along with Allen have been off to strong starts lately, and the Cavs have systemically changed how they start games. The Cavs have pounded the paint, playing to their strength inside. Over the last 10 games, the Cavs have the 9th highest percentage of first quarter points in the paint. During their streak without Mobley and Garland, the Cavs were 20th in percentage of first quarter points in the paint.
  • The Cavs first quarter net rating the last 10 games is +4.1, good for 12th. During their streak without Mobley and Garland, their net rating was +12.7, good for 2nd. Their starts of late haven’t been terrible but they haven’t built the noticeable advantage they were getting on teams.
  • One thing that is noticeable is the Cavs lack of three-point shooting to start games. Within their last 10 games, they’re 17th in first quarter 3PA. During the streak, they were tied for 2nd in 3PA.
  • Coincidence? Perhaps. But the Cavs early game perimeter shooting did often help in getting out to quick leads and putting opposing teams in a hole early whereas the inside game has been efficient but is easier to overcome for opposing teams when it comes to fending off leads.
 
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