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2012 Presidential Election

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Who Will Win the 2012 Presidential Election?

  • Barack Obama

    Votes: 70 60.9%
  • Mitt Romney

    Votes: 42 36.5%
  • Electoral College Tie

    Votes: 3 2.6%

  • Total voters
    115
  • Poll closed .
The Civil War was a war of two economic systems. The Emancipation Proclamation came two years after the succession. This is a history teacher trying hard to be polite...

One of my pet peeves right there. So many people talk about the Civil War being a war about slavery. That's just incorrect. Sure there were abolitionist movements out there, but Lincoln released the slaves because the war wasn't going well.
 
One of my pet peeves right there. So many people talk about the Civil War being a war about slavery. That's just incorrect. Sure there were abolitionist movements out there, but Lincoln released the slaves because the war wasn't going well.

I just read Team of Rivals. Lincoln ran on a platform of isolating slavery to the states that already established slavery, but no new states would be slave states. That was in 1860. Southern slave-owning states felt this was an attack on their agricultural way of life from an Industrialist and seceded from the union. Sorry, these are just facts. It annoyed me, no doubt about it.
 
One of my pet peeves right there. So many people talk about the Civil War being a war about slavery. That's just incorrect. Sure there were abolitionist movements out there, but Lincoln released the slaves because the war wasn't going well.

Romanticism. It's like how people claim the US joined WWII to save the Jews.
 
One of my pet peeves right there. So many people talk about the Civil War being a war about slavery. That's just incorrect. Sure there were abolitionist movements out there, but Lincoln released the slaves because the war wasn't going well.

The causes of the Civil War were complex, and have been controversial since the war began. The issue has been further complicated by historical revisionists, who have tried to improve the image of the South by lessening the role of slavery.[7] Slavery was the central source of escalating political tension in the 1850s. The Republican Party was determined to prevent any spread of slavery, and many Southern leaders had threatened secession if the Republican candidate, Lincoln, won the 1860 election. Following Lincoln's victory, many Southern whites felt that disunion had become their only option.

While not all Southerners saw themselves as fighting to preserve slavery, most of the officers and over a third of the rank and file in Lee's army had close family ties to slavery. To Northerners, in contrast, the motivation was primarily to preserve the Union, not to abolish slavery.[8] Abraham Lincoln consistently made preserving the Union the central goal of the war, though he increasingly saw slavery as a crucial issue and made ending it an additional goal.[9] Lincoln's decision to issue the Emancipation Proclamation angered both Peace Democrats ("Copperheads") and War Democrats, but energized most Republicans.[10] By warning that free blacks would flood the North, Democrats made gains in the 1862 elections, but they did not gain control of Congress. The Republicans' counterargument that slavery was the mainstay of the enemy steadily gained support, with the Democrats crushed at the 1863 elections in Ohio when they tried to resurrect anti-black sentiment.[11]

From Wikipedia...it's also a bit ironic to me the Republican party fought so hard for the abolishment of slavery while democrats steadfastly approved of it.
 
On a side note, I realized after the election that any sense of nationalism that this country had is gone. It's no longer about the country or our country's future. It's all about individualism and selfishness.
I'm not sure you understand the meanings of the words you're using.

You say American citizens do not care about America anymore but only themselves. Another entitlement-society argument. This is highly cynical and borders on paranoid delusion. After an election in which tens of millions of Americans took time out of their day to ponder the choice of their next leader, drive to volunteer-led station and receive a sticker with "I voted!" emblazoned over an American flag, you realized any sense of nationalism (perhaps you mean patriotism? It doesn't make much difference here I don't think) that this country had was gone. By country you mean its citizens, of course, but how many? You exaggerate and seem to mean all of them but perhaps it is just enough citizens to win a national election for your opposition's party. Anyway, nationalism or patriotism are not the words you want to use here. You're speaking of national values, "American" values, like- drum roll please- individualism. Individualism which you later lament.

You claim voters, who lack any sense of nationalism or patriotism, through use of the healthcare issue and entitlement argument you declare lack values like individualism as a virtue, do not care about their country (within which they had just voted in a national election). *catches breath* How do you know this to be true? You emphasize that Americans truly only care about individualism (by which you don't mean individualism but something else) and selfishness. I'm guessing you don't understand the definition of individualism, likely because you've never read a book. Individualism is "all about" that personal responsibility and self-reliance you weakly champion later. I could be mistaken, and you could actually oppose individualism itself as it would seem to be an anti-nationalist idea. Though individualism is universally proclaimed as an American ideal, so honestly I have little idea what you are trying to say.

"Obama will continue to give free contraception and birth control"... I'll vote for him, yet I can buy a condom at gas station for 99 cents.
Gas-station condoms are not the solution to a healthcare debate.

"Obama is going to give ME free health care"... Cool but what about the future of the country after this thing completely bankrupts us.
Cool but what about your characterization of your opponents as completely entitled, selfish, lazy and yet also democratically motivated? Cool but what of your scapegoating of a larger fiscal crisis on one government program?

It kills me knowing that my kids are going to have this enormous debt crisis on their plates.
I'm not sure you actually have kids. Literacy and language proficiency on the internet are not great predictors of age or intelligence, but come on- this is tedious to read. America will be bankrupted by Obamacare yet your kids will face a debt crisis when they come of age. Firstly the basic idea behind the word bankruptcy is that most if not all your debts are discharged. Clearly this comprehension is at least something you find difficulty conveying. Secondly, bankruptcy is not the only threat (or even main threat) of a national debt crisis. Finally, there is a debt crisis now, "on your plate." This debt crisis is not the result of one source, catalyst, or final straw, nor does it have only one consequence. These are not controversial points.

We use to be a country of hard work and self-responsibility, but are now a shadow of our former self.
You're probably not using "self-responsibility" as a technical term in the fields of holistic medicine or child development, so for clarity's sake you can just write "responsibility." For your use it works just as well. Maybe you meant to say personal responsibility, but were in such a rush to angrily condemn the country you forgot to proofread your otherwise brilliant essay.















A single goddamned paragraph. I can't do the rest. Hopefully as a nephew of surgeons you can understand.
 
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Not ironic, political parties flip on their ideologies all the time.

So true. I consider Lincoln our greatest leader. My grandfather and I talk about Lincoln and his policies every time we are in the same room. Ohio has traditionally been Republican because of these critical years, but that was 150+ years ago. I doubt Lincoln would have been considered in a Democratic primary, let alone the Republican primary, in our society today. He was deeply opinionated and didn't bow down to rich influences easily. He was deeply principled.

Look at how both Romney and Obama were forced to shape who they were around surveys and polls... I doubt America will see someone like Lincoln in the POTUS role again.
 
So true. I consider Lincoln our greatest leader. My grandfather and I talk about Lincoln and his policies every time we are in the same room. Ohio has traditionally been Republican because of these critical years, but that was 150+ years ago. I doubt Lincoln would have been considered in a Democratic primary, let alone the Republican primary, in our society today. He was deeply opinionated and didn't bow down to rich influences easily. He was deeply principled.

Look at how both Romney and Obama were forced to shape who they were around surveys and polls... I doubt America will see someone like Lincoln in the POTUS role again.
Every leader has their flaws. For instance, Lincoln wanted to send the slaves back to Africa.

They say it takes 50 years to judge how good a president was.
 
The Civil War was a cause worth fighting. Several hundred thousand Americans lost life fighting for the independence of slaves. You think the US government could rally enough US military to bomb Texas over seceding from the US? A peaceful secession? No way....the US Gov't would look insane forcing a state that wanted to secede to stay in the union by using force.

And I can promise you, a shitload of Americans would make a move to Tejas. It's thriving for a reason....

Um...not it wasn't. If I wasn't lazy and figured out how to post pictures, I would post one of a face palm. Shit, people really need to read up on their history.
 
Every leader has their flaws. For instance, Lincoln wanted to send the slaves back to Africa.

They say it takes 50 years to judge how good a president was.

Many African-Americans, let alone white Americans, thought that was a good idea even into the 1920s. The Democratic Republic of Liberia was established in the 1840's as a possibility for this to happen. Consider the racial tension of the nation... it was left open as an option, but thankfully wasn't necessary.
 
So true. I consider Lincoln our greatest leader. My grandfather and I talk about Lincoln and his policies every time we are in the same room. Ohio has traditionally been Republican because of these critical years, but that was 150+ years ago. I doubt Lincoln would have been considered in a Democratic primary, let alone the Republican primary, in our society today. He was deeply opinionated and didn't bow down to rich influences easily. He was deeply principled.

Look at how both Romney and Obama were forced to shape who they were around surveys and polls... I doubt America will see someone like Lincoln in the POTUS role again.

That's my biggest problem with American politics today. We aren't electing the best leader, we are electing the man who conforms best with his party and the businesses that support said party and not the entire country. Recently, mostly with the Republicans, the candidate has to take an extremist stance in order to even gain the nomination for the presidency, which in turn makes a lot of voters skeptical as to what he would actually do if he was elected. Somewhere out there is the perfect President to get this country out of this hell hole, but he will never get the chance in today's political world because the parties are so brain washed and set on their ideas that anything that is different is borderline blasphemy to them. Shame.

And my most liked quality about Lincoln has nothing to do with what he did politically. The amount of balls he showed when half of his own country wanted to see him dead was amazing. Only a few people know what it's like to have a large group of your own country men and women wanting you dead, yet you keep going out in public, refuse to change your stance on issues, and continue to rally your supporters. The only one who rivals Lincoln in that regard in the history of our country is MLK. I couldn't imagine what those two had to go through. But Lincoln is my #2 for favorite presidents, Teddy Roosevelt will always be my favorite.

Edit: Forgot to add my favorite quote about our bipartisan government. "Let us not despair but act. Let us not seek the Republican answer or the Democratic answer but the right answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past - let us accept our own responsibility for the future."
 
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