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2016-2017 Around The NBA

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I don't know if any of you listen to the Lowe Post podcast - you should - but he just had Dave Joerger on and it really was an outstanding interview. Joerger seems to be pretty reasonable about this season. He acknowledges the problem with roster balance and understands why many think the Kings will have a top-6 pick next year. With that said, he's the first Kings coach in a long time who has a clear plan for how Cousins will be used, which is refreshing. I'm a bit higher on them after the interview than I was after the Joerger hiring.

@randymoss1881 @RealKingsFan

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=17383599

ya i love Jeerer and no doubt Boogie and Dave will have a strong relationship. I like what Vlade has done this off season and where we are going and it looks like Seal could be a steal. I also don't take the media on our prediction seriously like bleacher report having us ay 18 wins behind the 76ers or espy has us at 30 wins. We were at 33 wins last year with a worse roster, one of the worst coaches in the league, no defense, injuries all over, and the team quoting on the coach. but somehow we don't get any better with more vets, a very good coach, and an vastly improved bench.
 
He definitely gets traded. I just have no idea who might want him or what OKC could actually get for him. Teams like Washington and Charlotte could definitely use a low post scorer. I could see Boston seeking a guy like Kanter as they could still play Horford at PF. Kanter, Horford, Thomas, and Bradley would be a hell of a load offensively (though pretty shit defensively).

I'm just at a complete loss as to what his real value is. With the money he's making, he either needs to get dealt for multiple players or another max (old salary) level player. He's not a max level player which is what makes things a bit difficult for the Thunder.

For example, is he worth:
Crowder and Amir Johnson
Corey Brewer and Trevor Ariza
Doug McDermott and Robin Lopez
MKG and Frank Kaminsky

That contract, along with his defensive liabilities is really going to hinder dealing Kanter.
Right, and likely OKC will look to combine Kanter with whatever is necessary to get the piece they want. OKC knows they need to be in a position to win the West during the 2017-18 season, and the earlier they get there, the better. So what do they need?

Well, first off, they need a three-point shooting wing who is not a defensive sieve. For example, Morrow is a good offensive player, but you can barely play him due to his lax defense. Ideally, this wing will also be able to create his own offense when Westbrook is on the bench.

Secondly, a playmaking four who can defend slower wings and all big is necessary. They may wait to get this type of player (think Milsap and/or Blake) this summer when a lot become free agents. But, if OKC thinks getting one of those guys before free agency will help retain him in Oklahoma long-term, then they'll pull the trigger.

Here is the dilemma. Kanter + picks/assets/youngsters may not be enough to get one of these types of players. And Kanter provides offense that OKC does not have. So they will not trade him for pieces just to get the Turk off the books. If before the season starts - due to OKC having 16 guys on the roster - they have not traded Kanter, they will keep him as he is an offensive weapon, and try to trade a combo of McGary, Ehsan, and/or Collison.
 
Right, and likely OKC will look to combine Kanter with whatever is necessary to get the piece they want. OKC knows they need to be in a position to win the West during the 2017-18 season, and the earlier they get there, the better. So what do they need?

Well, first off, they need a three-point shooting wing who is not a defensive sieve. For example, Morrow is a good offensive player, but you can barely play him due to his lax defense. Ideally, this wing will also be able to create his own offense when Westbrook is on the bench.

Secondly, a playmaking four who can defend slower wings and all big is necessary. They may wait to get this type of player (think Milsap and/or Blake) this summer when a lot become free agents. But, if OKC thinks getting one of those guys before free agency will help retain him in Oklahoma long-term, then they'll pull the trigger.

Here is the dilemma. Kanter + picks/assets/youngsters may not be enough to get one of these types of players. And Kanter provides offense that OKC does not have. So they will not trade him for pieces just to get the Turk off the books. If before the season starts - due to OKC having 16 guys on the roster - they have not traded Kanter, they will keep him as he is an offensive weapon, and try to trade a combo of McGary, Ehsan, and/or Collison.

I can't see them trading Ersan as he's their only real shooter right now. Maybe if they're getting a legit PF in return. Otherwise I think he fits pretty well with Adams.

I wonder if they could get Rudy Gay without trading Kanter? He'd be a pretty good fit on that team. Not exactly a knock-down shooter but he's respectable. Could play the 4 in small ball as well. They have the pieces to make it happen, though it might involve trading Abrines.
 
Woj just reported that OKC traded two second round picks for Joffrey Lauvergne. Important because it means that Kanter is definitely on the block.

View: https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/770666939349864448
Just curious but why does he make Kanter available? Are they that similar? I don't know much about Lauvergne but since he is French I assume he is not a good defender. Do you think the Thunder are caving to pressure from Turkey due to Kanter's support of that coup leader?
 
I can't see them trading Ersan as he's their only real shooter right now. Maybe if they're getting a legit PF in return. Otherwise I think he fits pretty well with Adams.

Right, Ersan is only available if they get a shooter in return.

I wonder if they could get Rudy Gay without trading Kanter? He'd be a pretty good fit on that team. Not exactly a knock-down shooter but he's respectable. Could play the 4 in small ball as well. They have the pieces to make it happen, though it might involve trading Abrines.

Presti is really, unusually high on Abrines. I think he and Payne are only available if it gets OKC someone who they believe will allow them to win the West. I.E., if a Blake Griffin becomes available.

In terms of getting Rudy Gay without Kanter, it is definitely possible. The Thunder have a ton of draft picks in coming years, as well as some young talent that could be moveable. For example, Cameron Payne+Huestis+two first round picks may be enough to get it done.
 
Just curious but why does he make Kanter available? Are they that similar?

Eerily so. Especially when Kanter was in his second year, the analytics are nearly identical. Moreover, Lauvergne's offensive game - and more specifically his shooting - is a positive from the exact same spots on the floor. I am actually writing an article about it now that I'll post in here tomorrow.

I don't know much about Lauvergne but since he is French I assume he is not a good defender.

He's a terrible defender right now. But one area that both Denver and OKC like - no insider info here on Denver, just basing off of comments I've seen - is his defensive potential. He hasn't learned how to use his size whatsoever, but when he does, I think his potential is about Mozgov-level. But nonetheless, right now he is atrocious on that side of the floor. Potentially worse than Kanter.

Do you think the Thunder are caving to pressure from Turkey due to Kanter's support of that coup leader?
Due to my day job as a Middle East analyst I don't love speculating on this stuff... But I ultimately don't think that is the area of concern. Kanter's contract is awful when he isn't your best big. Kanter is a great offensive big, and he's learning to spread the floor, but Adams showed this postseason that he is just a better big because of his combo of offense and defense.

Also, I think the Thunder's offense with KD made Kanter a better player because he was almost always guaranteed single coverage, and many times he was open. With their current squad, Kanter will almost never get single-coverage, and may end up in double if Oladipo is off the court.

With all of that said, it's absolutely possible OKC is sensitive to the political climate both in the US and Turkey and do not want to upset the powers that be, so to speak. But, my view of it - again, as an academic and an analyst - is that Kanter's support for Gulen is not unique or extreme enough to be a decision-maker.
 
Let's talk for a minute about what an insufferable prick Amin Elhassan is.

14203141_1161489787222802_5131431251771137891_n.jpg
 
Its been fascinating watching Amin Elhassan evolve into the new Skip Bayless.
 
Its been fascinating watching Amin Elhassan evolve into the new Skip Bayless.
It's so unfortunate because his actual knowledge of NBA, NBA scouting, and NBA analytics is top-notch. He is just more concerned with becoming a TV and podcast personality as opposed to an analytical one. It kinda sucks.
 
I love the revisionist history of how "Steph Cury OBVIOUSLY wasn't physically right" in the NBA finals because of his knee injury earlier in the playoffs.

The same people saying that now were the assholes slobbering all over his knob after he "shook off the rust" and dropped like 30 in the second half of his first game back. The dude was fine physically. It's a joke what some of the ESPN guys are saying about it.

What changed? Not his fucking knee. It started with Russell Westbrook torching his ass until they switched Klay and Iguodala on him to save the day and culminated in Tyronn Lue swinging the ball to whoever Curry was guarding every possession and attacking him. Shumpert, JR, RJ, Kyrie....the entire team was taking Steph to the rack, results be damned because even if Shump dribbled that ball off of his own head and it ricochet' into the stands, Curry would still have to defend him that entire play and then have to take the ball up the court and try to initiate offense, and in his little fantasy land of front-running, gunslinging, media darling hero ball full of uncontested regular season 28 footers....things started to not go so well because defensive degree of difficulty was increased, open shots were decreased, and it threw him off and thus the entire Warriors team started to crumble. If Draymond Green didn't literally try to singlehandedly carry that team to a title in game 7, we would have overwhelmed Curry and won the game by 20.
 
Eerily so. Especially when Kanter was in his second year, the analytics are nearly identical. Moreover, Lauvergne's offensive game - and more specifically his shooting - is a positive from the exact same spots on the floor. I am actually writing an article about it now that I'll post in here tomorrow.



He's a terrible defender right now. But one area that both Denver and OKC like - no insider info here on Denver, just basing off of comments I've seen - is his defensive potential. He hasn't learned how to use his size whatsoever, but when he does, I think his potential is about Mozgov-level. But nonetheless, right now he is atrocious on that side of the floor. Potentially worse than Kanter.


Due to my day job as a Middle East analyst I don't love speculating on this stuff... But I ultimately don't think that is the area of concern. Kanter's contract is awful when he isn't your best big. Kanter is a great offensive big, and he's learning to spread the floor, but Adams showed this postseason that he is just a better big because of his combo of offense and defense.

Also, I think the Thunder's offense with KD made Kanter a better player because he was almost always guaranteed single coverage, and many times he was open. With their current squad, Kanter will almost never get single-coverage, and may end up in double if Oladipo is off the court.

With all of that said, it's absolutely possible OKC is sensitive to the political climate both in the US and Turkey and do not want to upset the powers that be, so to speak. But, my view of it - again, as an academic and an analyst - is that Kanter's support for Gulen is not unique or extreme enough to be a decision-maker.
MBD and @Bob_The_Cat, here is the article I wrote that I referenced yesterday. Hope you enjoy!

http://sportsbystats.com/2016/09/01...placed-kevin-durant-in-their-rearview-mirror/

While people were at work on Tuesday afternoon a significantly important trade occurred in the NBA. The Oklahoma City Thunder sent two future second round picks to Denver for big man Joffrey Lauvergne.

You may be asking yourself, “why is it a big deal that the Thunder traded for a young, backup big?” To answer that, let’s look at Oklahoma City’s big-man rotation: Steven Adams, Enes Kanter, Ersan Ilyasova, Joffrey Lauvergne Domantas Sabonis, Mitch McGary, and Nick Collison.

That’s seven big men, many of whom have overlapping skill-sets. Moreover, the Thunder have sixteen players on their roster, and they need to be down to at least fifteen by the time the season starts. So yes, this trade is important because it signals Oklahoma City is preparing for another move, one which would be potential bigger...
 
@jking948 The move that I thought could make some sense for both sides would be Kanter for Galinari. Denver is pretty thin at center while they do have other options at SF in Barton and Chandler. He'd be a pretty good fit next to Faried as well. Westbrook, Oladipo, and Galinari would provide a pretty tough scoring trio with Ersan helping stretch the floor.
 
Denver is just fine at center. They have Jokic who is one of the better young big prospects in the league and was 3rd in ROY voting.

And Nurkic is a decent backup.
 
Denver is just fine at center. They have Jokic who is one of the better young big prospects in the league and was 3rd in ROY voting.

And Nurkic is a decent backup.

I'm obviously quite bored given all the time I've devoted to talking about Kanter. Need to step away from RCF until Browns start :chuckle:
 
@jking948 The move that I thought could make some sense for both sides would be Kanter for Galinari. Denver is pretty thin at center while they do have other options at SF in Barton and Chandler. He'd be a pretty good fit next to Faried as well. Westbrook, Oladipo, and Galinari would provide a pretty tough scoring trio with Ersan helping stretch the floor.
If I were Presti I'd actually prefer to find a playmaking four who can shoot 3s. I really like the perimeter defense of Westbrook/Oladipo/Roberson. That's basically impossible to penetrate. But you are lacking offense with those three. Hence a Blake Griffin, Paul Millsap, etc type player would turn OKC into a legit finals contender.

Too bad Presti doesn't listen to me though...
 

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