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2017-2018 Around the NBA

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BimboColesHair said:
I'm not arguing who is worse, or what not.

I'm saying they are so bad all around that saying one area is better than the other defensively literally doesn't matter.
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Pacers and the Magic are two different teams. Nets defense is going to look better against the Magic for sure.

Pacers just had great spacing with Turner, Young, Leaf, Sabonis, Bojan, Collison, so a big plodding Big like Mozgov just couldn't keep up with Turner and protect the rim at the same time against atheltic penetrators in Collison and Oladipo.

What I was saying is that against certain teams their defense would look pretty okay anad against others not so much, especially against good shooting teams.
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
Pacers and the Magic are two different teams. Nets defense is going to look better against the Magic for sure.

Pacers just had great spacing with Turner, Young, Leaf, Sabonis, Bojan, Collison, so a big plodding Big like Mozgov just couldn't keep up with Turner and protect the rim at the same time against atheltic penetrators in Collison and Oladipo.

What I was saying is that against certain teams their defense would look pretty okay anad against others not so much, especially against good shooting teams.
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Orlando dropped 116 on Miami, and they're going to do worse against Brooklyn?

People are really sleeping on Orlando. Good coach, deep roster, good blend of young guys and vets, and most of their young guys are trending up.

I know you were one of the people who overreacted to the preseason a bit with the Nets and some of the success they had...but the way they want to play in order to remain competitive and hide their lack of talent is never going to let them be better defensively. Obviously they aren't going to give up 140 a night, but they are going to be terrible on that end, unless they decide to drastically slow down their pace. They just don't have the pieces to play in that style, but they have to to hide their deficiencies in talent with the majority of teams in the NBA.

And Timo is not ineffective because of other teams bigs, he's ineffective because of how fast his own team plays. His own team gasses him out, and his own team puts him out of position defensively with how fast they play...why they have to play small.
 
BimboColesHair said:
Orlando dropped 116 on Miami, and they're going to do worse against Brooklyn?

People are really sleeping on Orlando. Good coach, deep roster, good blend of young guys and vets, and most of their young guys are trending up.

I know you were one of the people who overreacted to the preseason a bit with the Nets and some of the success they had...but the way they want to play in order to remain competitive and hide their lack of talent is never going to let them be better defensively. Obviously they aren't going to give up 140 a night, but they are going to be terrible on that end, unless they decide to drastically slow down their pace. They just don't have the pieces to play in that style.

Timo is not ineffective because of other teams bigs, he's ineffective because of how fast his own team plays.
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Magic is an inconsistent team that is prone to variance. Either way, Nets are fucked without Lin because he was their only player that was somewhat decent guarding the PnR.. Russell can't guard a chair.

If not for Lin's injury i'm pretty sure the Nets were going to finish outside the top 4.

sure playing at a 113 pace is going to hurt Timo, but he only played 14 minutes. The real reason he was so ineffective was because Turner took him out of the paint completely and their guards had a free lane inside.
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
Magic is an inconsistent team that is prone to variance. Either way, Nets are fucked without Lin because he was their only player that was somewhat decent guarding the PnR.. Russell can't guard a chair.

If not for Lin's injury i'm pretty sure the Nets were going to finish outside the top 4.

sure playing at a 113 pace is going to hurt Timo, but he only played 14 minutes. The real reason he was so ineffective was because Turner took him out of the paint completely and their guards had a free lane inside.
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I watched the game man...

In Timo's 14 minutes on the floor, I can count on 2 hands the amount of times he wasn't even inside the 3 point line by the time the Pacers were attacking the rim, because the Pacers shoved the Nets pace back down their throats, which most well coached teams will do to them this year.

Crediting it all to the Pacers bigs is flawed, because in a lot of cases, Timo wasn't even in the paint in order to be pulled out of it.

Also, how can a team be inconsistent when they've played 1 game?
 
BimboColesHair said:
I watched the game man...

In Timo's 14 minutes on the floor, I can count on 2 hands the amount of times he wasn't even inside the 3 point line by the time the Pacers were attacking the rim, because the Pacers shoved the Nets pace back down their throats, which most well coached teams will do to them this year.

Crediting it all to the Pacers bigs is flawed, because in a lot of cases, Timo wasn't even in the paint in order to be pulled out of it.
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In the 1st 6 minutes of the game Timo was stuck in an island. He was either guarding Turner on the weakside stretched out to10-15ft and had no ability to rotate to the action and protect the lane, and on the ball against a Turner PnP he had two options of either commiting to ice and leave his assignment for an unconsted midrange or Push and allow penetration.

Then he was subbed for Booker and he didn't do a much better job either, was too small to contest both the penetrator and prevent a skip or an oop pass to Turner.

Againt Sabonis he had problems aswell, but they were different. In the 2nd half he only played the first 4 minutes and again he couldn't defend in the half court more than anything and that was it.

Pacers are underrated and they were a bad matchup.

Magic's core is practically the same as last year.. their starting lineup have inconsistent shooters so therefore as a team they are more prone to variance from game to game.

Doesn't really matter, we are talking so much about the fucking Nets, THE NETS!
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
In the 1st 6 minutes of the game Timo was stuck in an island. He was either guarding Turner on the weakside stretched out to10-15ft and had no ability to rotate to the action and protect the lane, and on the ball against a Turner PnP he had two options of either commiting to ice and leave his assignment for an unconsted midrange or Push and allow penetration.

Then he was subbed for Booker and he didn't do a much better job either, was too small to contest both the penetrator and prevent a skip or an oop pass to Turner.

Againt Sabonis he had problems aswell, but they were different. In the 2nd half he only played the first 4 minutes and again he couldn't defend in the half court more than anything and that was it.

Pacers are underrated and they were a bad matchup.

Magic's core is practically the same as last year.. their starting lineup have inconsistent shooters so therefore as a team they are more prone to variance from game to game.

Doesn't really matter, we are talking so much about the fucking Nets, THE NETS!
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Like I said...watched the game...I just went back and watched Timo's minutes again, to make sure what I thought I saw was actually there.

9 possessions where Timo is not in position by the time the Pacers start their offense, 8 of which ended with layups or a shooting foul at the rim, while the 9th was a wide open 3 missed. 6 of those possessions were after made or missed shots.

9 times in 14 minutes where your rim protector can't get into position because of your pace and puts your already bad defense out of position is not good...Kenny Atkinson is a good coach, I'm sure he noticed that.

And yeah...it's the Nets...but they kind of matter to the Cavs this year, and it is "Around the NBA"...I just can't believe you actually think they will get marketably better defensively with their personnel and style of play.

Also, never a fan of using previous seasons as indicators for the next season, especially in a sport where progression of young players is fairly jarring. Like I can go point to the 76ers flaws from previous years, even when Embiid was on the floor, or how Covington hasn't been able to shoot for 2 years...but that means jack shit right now.

Year to year teams change, and unless you are throwing out an older core that has been together for a while (Spurs, Warriors, Raptors, Grizz, Wiz), previous seasons aren't really a good predictor for anything. Gives you a good idea, but speaking on them as fact or evidence for this season is something I can't buy into, and never really will, at least while looking at a team as a whole.
 
BimboColesHair said:
Like I said...watched the game...I just went back and watched Timo's minutes again, to make sure what I thought I saw was actually there.

9 possessions where Timo is not in position by the time the Pacers start their offense, 8 of which ended with layups or a shooting foul at the rim, while the 9th was a wide open 3 missed. 6 of those possessions were after made or missed shots.

9 times in 14 minutes where your rim protector can't get into position because of your pace and puts your already bad defense out of position is not good...Kenny Atkinson is a good coach, I'm sure he noticed that.

And yeah...it's the Nets...but they kind of matter to the Cavs this year, and it is "Around the NBA"...I just can't believe you actually think they will get marketably better defensively with their personnel and style of play.

Also, never a fan of using previous seasons as indicators for the next season, especially in a sport where progression of young players is fairly jarring. Like I can go point to the 76ers flaws from previous years, even when Embiid was on the floor, or how Covington hasn't been able to shoot for 2 years...but that means jack shit right now.

Year to year teams change, and unless you are throwing out an older core that has been together for a while (Spurs, Warriors, Raptors, Grizz, Wiz), previous seasons aren't really a good predictor for anything. Gives you a good idea, but speaking on them as fact or evidence for this season is something I can't buy into, and never really will, at least while looking at a team as a whole.
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Nets had tons of turnovers and transition points for sure, but even in the half court Timo just couldn't defend for shit because of Turners gravity.

I never said they were going to be better defensively than last year? the only thing I said is that they have better frontcourt defenders (depending on the matchup) than backcourt. Their backcourt is going to struggle to defend almost anyone.
They were better defensively last season, but they also played at a slower pace and they had worse offense aswell.

But again, losing Lin will make create big problems for them because their depth at the 1 spot is just terrible. Are they going to start Dinwiddie and bring Whitehead(who was out of the rotation completely) of the bench? are they going to make Russell the PG and insert another poor defensive player in the starting lineup to play the 2? Sheesh.
 
Nathan S said:
Cavs fans probably shouldn't talk about the lottery system being rigged :chuckle:
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Even if you are joking, I'm not going to feel guilty, apologetic, etc. about the lotto during LeBron's "College in Miami" years.

If we got "lucky" it only makes up for 52 years of other CLE bad luck.

The irony is the people saying "rigged" are often fans of the Patrick Ewing Knicks - who actually had a folded draft paper rather than a professionally audited modern system - or of the Bulls when they drafted Derrick Rose #1 in 08 with the same record as the 2013-14 Cavs.

I know it is a joke but other teams mean it seriously - i.e. Bill Simmons' ticked-off headshake or Draymond's superteam/top picks sore-winning line at their parade which IMO was much worse sore-winning that the 3-1 cookies/tombstones/Halloween party - we had infinite sore-winning room after 2016 because, again, 52 years in all sports.
 
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Again, the Hawks are not going to be the worst team in basketball...Bud can coach.
 
Ben Simmons is truly a phenom. Kid is going to be a superstar. No doubt in my mind. If Embiid can stay healthy, they have two legit guys who look like future top 10 players. Fultz has a chance to be great too, needs some time and health though.
 
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