2017-2018 Boston Celtics: No Irving! No Hayward! No Brooklyn Pick!

[gourimoko]

At the moment this series is eerily similar to last years Pistons series.

In some ways yes, I'd agree with that.

Kyrie is putting up some good box scorer numbers, albeit with mediocre efficiency because he isn't getting to the line as per usual and his assists are down; it's still early obviously. His EFG is roughly the same, but his three point shot has been in the toilet thus far.

It's simply too early to make these kinds of assessments.

Simply put, Kyrie had a very inefficient Game 1 and a very efficient Game 2. Just looking at the average between the two doesn't tell you very much, especially since you'd get far more information just looking at the two data points (games) individually.

With that said, Kyrie's Piston's series was phenomenal. I'm not sure why it is that you disagree, but we've been over that one quite a bit.

I'm seeing some posts here saying his post season defense is back, and no it's not, and it never was outside of a few key games last year.

Not just posts here, many people have observed Irving making good defensive plays. Is he a defensive stopper on the perimeter? No; but not many players are. Nonetheless, he is playing defense and it shows; Lloyd and Windhorst both commented on this IIRC.

He's being torched when he's out there,

I think the jury is out on this so far. I will say the Irving definitely had a solid defensive presence in Game 1.

but he's made a few flashy defensive plays that saved game 1. That was the 12 point victory game that we won by one point.

Well, with respect to game 1, again, I don't think Irving was getting "torched." Cavs were -7 for the entire quarter, and James was on the floor for the entire 4th quarter; (Irving was -5, Love -3). FWIW, Teague, Miles, and Ellis combined for 6 points (2x Teague 3's) on 2/5 FGM/A. It's not like Irving nearly lost this game for the Cavs.

And if we're being completely objective here, then it would be worthwhile to note that the Cavs blew another 4th quarter lead in Game 2, and yet, in that game, our frontcourt gave up 22 out of 33 points scored with James/Cavs (playing all 12 minutes of the 4th) netting a -12 for the 4th Q. And yet Kyrie was -7, and scored 11 of the Cavs 21 points.

In fact, Irving's Game 2 4th quarter may have kept us from giving that game away.

Irving scored 11 points in 8 minutes on 70% true shooting while posting a 47.3% usage rate and only generating one turnover.

This is a game the Cavs very nearly lost, and it wasn't because of Kyrie Irving... if anything, swap Irving and Teague and the Cavs very likely lose this game, and Game 1 for that matter.

Kyrie in this last game was +3, but the team was +14 when he sat. Just like the pistons series the team built leads with the bench. Deron gave us awesome minutes and Love detonated of course.

In each game Irving has had a greater +/- than LeBron James in the 4th quarter with James playing all 12 minutes of each of those periods, where, rather importantly, in each instance the Cavs started the 4th with a lead.

Currently Kyrie is rocking a -4.3 BPM and is -10 per 100 possessions according to bball reference.

Over 2 games. I don't think anyone would think Irving is going to end the playoffs with a negative BPM and Net Rating. (Also, FWIW, Irving is +1.5 on the series per NBA.com; BKREF's Rtg isn't the traditional P/100 rating system - it includes the box score).

His defense just not being a complete disaster would be huge because he's currently pouring in 42 points per 100 possessions which is top shelf elite. Still, making more threes and getting more throws would be nice.

Irving's 3's will come with additional games. And he can't exactly blow the whistle for the refs.

I'll take the defensive improvement over anything though. I think we would all settle for not complete liability; which he has been.

I think the bolded is completely and demonstrably false.

 

[ACisKING]

In some ways yes, I'd agree with that.



It's simply too early to make these kinds of assessments.

Simply put, Kyrie had a very inefficient Game 1 and a very efficient Game 2. Just looking at the average between the two doesn't tell you very much, especially since you'd get far more information just looking at the two data points (games) individually.

With that said, Kyrie's Piston's series was phenomenal. I'm not sure why it is that you disagree, but we've been over that one quite a bit.



Not just posts here, many people have observed Irving making good defensive plays. Is he a defensive stopper on the perimeter? No; but not many players are. Nonetheless, he is playing defense and it shows; Lloyd and Windhorst both commented on this IIRC.



I think the jury is out on this so far. I will say the Irving definitely had a solid defensive presence in Game 1.



Well, with respect to game 1, again, I don't think Irving was getting "torched." Cavs were -7 for the entire quarter, and James was on the floor for the entire 4th quarter; (Irving was -5, Love -3). FWIW, Teague, Miles, and Ellis combined for 6 points (2x Teague 3's) on 2/5 FGM/A. It's not like Irving nearly lost this game for the Cavs.

And if we're being completely objective here, then it would be worthwhile to note that the Cavs blew another 4th quarter lead in Game 2, and yet, in that game, our frontcourt gave up 22 out of 33 points scored with James/Cavs (playing all 12 minutes of the 4th) netting a -12 for the 4th Q. And yet Kyrie was -7, and scored 11 of the Cavs 21 points.

In fact, Irving's Game 2 4th quarter may have kept us from giving that game away.

Irving scored 11 points in 8 minutes on 70% true shooting while posting a 47.3% usage rate and only generating one turnover.

This is a game the Cavs very nearly lost, and it wasn't because of Kyrie Irving... if anything, swap Irving and Teague and the Cavs very likely lose this game, and Game 1 for that matter.

I thought Kyrie competed on defense in game 1 and made several huge defensive plays...maybe even game-saving ones. I also thought he set the tone with his energy on a couple of dives for loose balls.

In the first half of game 2 he was the worst defensive player on the Cavs (even worse than JR). He was getting torched one-on-one and just died on screens on and off of the ball. And even when his man would switch to help him out, he wouldn't rotate to the screen setter. That being said, his effort in the second half of game 2 was much more encouraging.

So overall through two games, he's shown flashes of defensive engagement and flashes of total apathy. I actually view that as a positive thing as he has once again shown he can be good enough on that end when he wants to be, just like he was last postseason.

 

[PinkFlame]

 

[Ohio]

Mo Williams says the toughest guard to cover in the league is Kyrie. His logic is sound.

 

[czvo]

I remember posting in here a while back I was concerned about his three point shooting.

Well....

 

[czvo]

Something is really wrong with his three point shot, and it's been like that for a while now.

 

[Jscc]

Something is really wrong with his three point shot, and it's been like that for a while now.

Probably his knee.

 

[Cavs29fan]

If he's hurting that could be bad for us. We really don't have anyone else to give us consistent offense other than him and Lebron.

 

[Lee]

Why are Irving and Love both sitting?

 

[Ohio]

Hopefully this was his one absolute stinker in the playoffs like that one Toronto game last year.

 

[Soar]

4/17.

-17. Lowest on the team.

 

[mAo_mAo]

I saw him limping while running to the locker room after the game. I hope I am just imagining things.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Just had a really really bad game tonight.

But Kyrie's a star and he's a champion, and he's going to come back, hopefully next game, but it might take an extra game or two, and he's going to get back to playing great basketball.

The rest of the guys picked up his slack tonight.

 

[Jscc]

I saw him limping while running to the locker room after the game. I hope I am just imagining things.

Well if that's the case we're cooked.

 

[Gus Zing]

No way around it. Kyrie needs to win us game 4.

I know LeBron will be rested, but we shouldn't be counting on him playing 45 mins to beat Indiana. Get it done Kyrie.

Paul George is a great player, but he should not be the 2nd best player in this series.