2017-2018 Boston Celtics: No Irving! No Hayward! No Brooklyn Pick!

[bigfoot5415]

4x All Star
1st Team All Rookie
2012 ROY
2015 All NBA 3rd Team
2014 AS MVP
1x NBA Champion

Career scoring average of 21.6 on 45/38/87

Averaged 25.6 on 47/40/90 (Improved across the board)

Hit the biggest shot in NBA history

Marketable as hell.

Super intelligent.

Clutch.

Can destroy a defense in just about any way he wants or chooses.

Just turned 25.

....yet people want to trade him.


This dude walks away from us when he wants to. Until then, he gets legend treatment.

 

[TyGuy]

4x All Star
1st Team All Rookie
2012 ROY
2015 All NBA 3rd Team
2014 AS MVP
1x NBA Champion

Career scoring average of 21.6 on 45/38/87

Averaged 25.6 on 47/40/90 (Improved across the board)

Hit the biggest shot in NBA history

Marketable as hell.

Super intelligent.

Clutch.

Can destroy a defense in just about any way he wants or chooses.

Just turned 25.

....yet people want to trade him.


This dude walks away from us when he wants to. Until then, he gets legend treatment.

People want to trade him for better players. Nobody is advocating flipping him for Jae Crowder.

 

[Triumph36]

He will be an MVP candidate this year. Voter fatigue will be key on Durant, Curry, and to an extent Harden. I expect Kyrie and AD to have a strong case for MVP. Amazing how AD almost feels forgotten in discussions with who's the best player. With Kawhi cementing himself in the top 5 and Giannis emergence, AD missing the playoffs probably made him fade on few people.

i don't understand what you mean by "voter fatigue" in reference to durant, curry, and harden? if you mean assigning less value/credit because they're on a such a good team, then harden doesn't deserve to be lumped in that group. if you mean they'll simply get tired because those guys been voted at the top for so long then it still doesn't apply because neither curry nor harden have finished at the top of voting for that long.

regardless, i'll put any amount of money on at least durant and harden finishing ahead of kyrie next season so long as they all play >60 games.

edit: ah hell, curry too

 

[gourimoko]

Kyrie isn't a better playmaker.

That's false.

Butler has the better assists to turnover ratio with close assist output.

You've said this a few times, but .. there's very little reason to believe this makes Butler the better playmaker, whatsoever. You're asserting this statistic as though it's the totality of what defines a playmaker.

Also, from 0-3 feet Butler is more efficient, and the guy goes to the bucket as much as anybody.

And yet, Irving is more efficient as both a scorer and a shooter; and you know that.

Like what was said earlier. If this was the and 1 tour Kyrie would be the best player in the league. There's more to basketball than listing individual skills. There's 4 other players on your team. The other team has 5 players. You didn't even list getting to the freethrow line which is the one of the strongest assets to have as a scorer.

Or maybe getting to the free throw line isn't as much an asset as a default quality of being the sole star on your team?

Maybe when you're playing alongside two other stars, you're "ability to get to the free throw line" gets affected as well?

 

[gourimoko]

People want to trade him for better players. Nobody is advocating flipping him for Jae Crowder.

Anyone advocating trading Kyrie right now, after the Butler trade; isn't making much sense.

 

[TyGuy]

That's false.



You've said this a few times, but .. there's very little reason to believe this makes Butler the better playmaker, whatsoever. You're asserting this statistic as though it's the totality of what defines a playmaker.



And yet, Irving is more efficient as both a scorer and a shooter; and you know that.



Or maybe getting to the free throw line isn't as much an asset as a default quality of being the sole star on your team?

Maybe when you're playing alongside two other stars, you're "ability to get to the free throw line" gets affected as well?

He's not more efficient as a scorer. Butler carried a slightly better TS. That wasn't what he argued though. He said that Kyrie was the better finisher which was false and that Kyrie is the better shooter. I didn't contend him on Butler being a better shooter.

I'm sorry, but if both guys have comparable assist totals, but one guy turns the ball over less, i'm going to favor the guy with less turnovers. Either way, it's not like one or the other has this huge advantage in playmaking as if one of them was Chris Paul or John Stockton.

 

[TyGuy]

Anyone advocating trading Kyrie right now, after the Butler trade; isn't making much sense.

Now that Paul has opted out and Butler is off the market I agree. Barring something crazy like Anthony Davis, Towns, Greek freak ect being available.

Maybe if we had a GM during the most crucial point of the off season we could have got something done.

 

[Kizzle]

4x All Star
1st Team All Rookie
2012 ROY
2015 All NBA 3rd Team
2014 AS MVP
1x NBA Champion

Career scoring average of 21.6 on 45/38/87

Averaged 25.6 on 47/40/90 (Improved across the board)

Hit the biggest shot in NBA history

Marketable as hell.

Super intelligent.

Clutch.

Can destroy a defense in just about any way he wants or chooses.

Just turned 25.

....yet people want to trade him.


This dude walks away from us when he wants to. Until then, he gets legend treatment.

Do you feel me tho

lol People say he doesn't make ppl better but having a guy who is such a great 1 on 1 scorer is helpful in its own. Not a guy you build around but basketball is still about getting buckets. And Kyrie does that better than anyone on earth.

To make hes worth more than Bledsoe and a 4th.

 

[gourimoko]

He's not more efficient as a scorer. Butler carried a slightly better TS.

TS isn't the only measurement of scoring efficiency, Ty.

Kyrie is easily the more efficient scorer. It's ridiculous to argue otherwise. Jimmy Butler gets to the line 9 times a game; that's where that variance in true shooting percentage is coming from.

That wasn't what he argued though. He said that Kyrie was the better finisher which was false and that Kyrie is the better shooter. I didn't contend him on Butler being a better shooter.

Kyrie is a better finisher than Jimmy Butler... You're going off the 0-3ft FG% numbers without adjusting for dunks. When you remove dunks from the equation, Irving's percentage is higher.

I'm sorry, but if both guys have comparable assist totals, but one guy turns the ball over less, i'm going to favor the guy with less turnovers.

Which, IMHO, is poor way to look at "playmaking;" when instead you're solely looking at AST/TOV which is not the sole means of measuring "playmaking."

Either way, it's not like one or the other has this huge advantage in playmaking as if one of them was Chris Paul or John Stockton.

Then why mention it?

 

[TyGuy]

Until freethrow shooting is removed from the game it will continue to be a factor in scoring efficiency. Does it really matter if it's a dunk or a layup? They both are two points they are both from 0-3 feet. Is steph's superior 0-3 feet efficiency because he dunks more too?

 

[gourimoko]

Now that Paul has opted out and Butler is off the market I agree. Barring something crazy like Anthony Davis, Towns, Greek freak ect being available.

Yep.

Maybe if we had a GM during the most crucial point of the off season we could have got something done.

I don't think that would have made a difference, Ty... LeBron would never have allowed it.

 

[Real Deal]

 

[gourimoko]

Until freethrow shooting is removed from the game it will continue to be a factor in scoring efficiency.

That's fine if you want to factor it in, but you also need to factor in the fact that players who play with other superstars see their free throw attempts drop. There is a finite number of attempts to go around; and Butler is using a tremendous amount of attempts available for the Bulls.

 

[TyGuy]

That's fine if you want to factor it in, but you also need to factor in the fact that players who play with other superstars see their free throw attempts drop. There is a finite number of attempts to go around; and Butler is using a tremendous amount of attempts available for the Bulls.

As i'm sure he would here or he will with the pups.

 

[TyGuy]

Yep.



I don't think that would have made a difference, Ty... LeBron would never have allowed it.

Do we really know with 100 % certainty that LeBron wouldn't allow Kyrie to be traded for Jimmy Butler?