2017-2018 Boston Celtics: No Irving! No Hayward! No Brooklyn Pick!

[I'mWithDan]

If nothing else, it would serve some of the RCF community right to have to watch George Hill for the next 5 years.

All the "he's not a playmaker crowd" would really see what "not a playmaker" truly is.

We aren't trading Kyrie for the proposed package by some clown writer. He's 20 freaking 5 coming off a 27/6/3 season on 47/40/90 shooting splits.

Kyrie is one of the most untouchable players in the league and any owner or GM who would trade him for anyone other than Durant or Kawhi is completely clueless.

 

[FrontPageNews]

Kyrie ain't going anywhere. And if he was woj would he all over it. Not this clown

 

[arglebargle]

Watching video of Irving I say he is much better then the Media darling Curry. I am sick and tired of any great player here getting the shit treatment. However that is what it takes to to always get beat on and Lonzo Ball is better than CP and Kyrie... I am sick of the left media and my why I realize Kyrie is one hell if not the most underrated player in the NBA to date.

Curry is a far better defender than Kyrie, both on the ball and in a team scheme. Not that Curry is fantastic at it, but let's see Kyrie ever lead the league in steals, or come close to being at the top.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Curry is a far better defender than Kyrie, both on the ball and in a team scheme. Not that Curry is fantastic at it, but let's see Kyrie ever lead the league in steals, or come close to being at the top.

You think the player we effectively switched and hunted down in the P&R en route to a historic finals comeback is "a far better defender" than Kyrie?

The only difference between the two players' defense is that Curry has 2 DPOY type players on his team to help cover his mistakes (or to just flat out hide him). I'm guessing people would think Kyrie was a significantly better defender if he had someone like Draymond protecting the rim for him.

 

[Tlyons]

You think they player we effectively switched and hunted down in the P&R in route to a historic finals comeback is "a far better defender" than Kyrie?

The only difference between the two players' defense is that Curry has 2 DPOY type players on his team to help cover his mistakes (or to just flat out hide him). I'm guessing people would think Kyrie was a significantly better defender if he had someone like Draymond protecting the rim for him.

Don't forget that 7 foot wing and the return of the legal hand check

 

[Chris]

Are we really still saying, "If he ever learns to play defense..." when he's been in the league this long already? He is what he is. A great offensive talent. I'd be shocked if he ever became a league average defender at this point, let alone a plus player on that end.

 

[bobbyh]

Are we really still saying, "If he ever learns to play defense..." when he's been in the league this long already? He is what he is. A great offensive talent. I'd be shocked if he ever became a league average defender at this point, let alone a plus player on that end.

I agree; he isn't going to get much better on defense no matter how many years he has in the league.

He doesn't want to put in the effort and maybe if he did it would take away from his offensive game.

 

[bigfoot5415]

Are we really still saying, "If he ever learns to play defense..." when he's been in the league this long already? He is what he is. A great offensive talent. I'd be shocked if he ever became a league average defender at this point, let alone a plus player on that end.

Respectfully disagree. Defense is 75% effort. He doesnt do that.

If you would have told me Kevin Love would look respectable against GSW, I would have called you crazy.

This year our team took the regular season doesnt matter route, and it cost them in the end. If Kevin extrapolated that defense to the full season, we wouldnt have been as surprised.

The exact same could be said about Kyrie. He can do it. Its all about effort.

 

[Green Lantern]

Only one player I want hear in the same breath with a Irving trade, and thats Giannis Antetokounmpo...and we all know that's not happening.

 

[arglebargle]

You think the player we effectively switched and hunted down en the P&R in route to a historic finals comeback is "a far better defender" than Kyrie?

The only difference between the two players' defense is that Curry has 2 DPOY type players on his team to help cover his mistakes (or to just flat out hide him). I'm guessing people would think Kyrie was a significantly better defender if he had someone like Draymond protecting the rim for him.

The eye test shows Curry being able to stay in front of his man better than Kyrie. This isn't any kind of an endorsement of Curry's defense. It's instead an indictment of Kyrie's. IMO, he is one of the very worst defensive players I have ever seen.

 

[Chris]

Respectfully disagree. Defense is 75% effort. He doesnt do that.

If you would have told me Kevin Love would look respectable against GSW, I would have called you crazy.

This year our team took the regular season doesnt matter route, and it cost them in the end. If Kevin extrapolated that defense to the full season, we wouldnt have been as surprised.

The exact same could be said about Kyrie. He can do it. Its all about effort.

Okay, well, I won't be holding my breath with unrealistic expectations that Kyrie is going to suddenly become a defensive asset. LeBron has been here for three years and if he can't convince Kyrie to try on defense, I doubt anyone can.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Are we really still saying, "If he ever learns to play defense..." when he's been in the league this long already? He is what he is. A great offensive talent. I'd be shocked if he ever became a league average defender at this point, let alone a plus player on that end.

He's an average defender, which is completely fine given his offensive skill set.

Kyrie Irving SportVU Regular Season:

STL per /36: 1.2
iScore 20+ ft: 87.4
Jumper FG%: 40.6%
EFG surrendered: 56.4%
Stop Percentage: 50.6%
Points Per Touch: 1.10
Drives per /36 against: 5.1
Player Points Per Drive: 0.61
Team Points Per Drive: 1.29
Points Per Isolation: 0.87
Team Points Per Isolation: 1.02
Isolation FG%: 41.2%

Again, it is the spread of an average defender. Lot of average and some bad, with a little good.

Kyrie isn't a good defender but he's also not a bad one.......he floats between above and below average depending on his level of motivation.

This past post-season, he was slightly better as a defender across the 18 playoff games.

 

[Chris]

He's an average defender, which is completely fine given his offensive skill set.

Kyrie Irving SportVU Regular Season:

STL per /36: 1.2
iScore 20+ ft: 87.4
Jumper FG%: 40.6%
EFG surrendered: 56.4%
Stop Percentage: 50.6%
Points Per Touch: 1.10
Drives per /36 against: 5.1
Player Points Per Drive: 0.61
Team Points Per Drive: 1.29
Points Per Isolation: 0.87
Team Points Per Isolation: 1.02
Isolation FG%: 41.2%

Again, it is the spread of an average defender. Lot of average and some bad, with a little good.

Kyrie isn't a good defender but he's also not a bad one.......he floats between above and below average depending on his level of motivation.

This past post-season, he was slightly better as a defender across the 18 playoff games.

Don't know what any of that means relative to the rest of the NBA, so I'll take your word for it. I will say that a guy whose defense depends on his level of motivation probably isn't a franchise player, or at least not someone I would give the reigns to after LeBron leaves or retires.

 

[I'mWithDan]

The eye test shows Curry being able to stay in front of his man better than Kyrie. This isn't any kind of an endorsement of Curry's defense. It's instead an indictment of Kyrie's. IMO, he is one of the very worst defensive players I have ever seen.

This is why eye tests are dumb. See the SportVu data below.

Steph gave up a 66.7% FG on drives. 0.71 Player Points Per Drive. 1.06 Team Points Per Drive.

In isolation, Curry was HORRENDOUS, with a 1.21 Points Per Isolation against and an even worse 1.57 Team Points Per Isolation against.

Curry was BY FAR the worst isolation defender on the Warriors and it wasn't that close.

Kyrie was better defensively in that series, albeit not world beating.

Kyrie gave up a 33.3% FG on drives. 0.47 Player Points Per Drive. 1.13 Team Points Per Drive. Drive defense was pretty damn good, especially PPP.

Kyrie was BY FAR OUR BEST 1-on-1 defender off the dribble in the finals, producing team bests in both numbers above (80+ minutes).

In isolation, Kyrie was solid with a 0.87 Points Per Isolation against and a decent 1.14 Team Points Per Isolation against. Both numbers were fairly average for the team.

So again, Kyrie is fine when he's motivated. I don't love his defense but it is good enough given his immense offensive talents.

 

[Ohio]

The eye test shows Curry being able to stay in front of his man better than Kyrie. This isn't any kind of an endorsement of Curry's defense. It's instead an indictment of Kyrie's. IMO, he is one of the very worst defensive players I have ever seen.

This narrative needs to stop. Curry is fucking garbage on defense. Absolute shit. It was largely exposed in the 2016 playoffs. But this year he didn't even need to bother trying on defense because the Warriors were just too talented for every team. So they hid him as always, but even still whatever production he gave up to the opponent's worst perimeter player didn't matter. Golden State would just outscore you anyways.

In 2016 when his defense actually mattered, they lost. That's not an accident. And he was still just hiding on JR Smith. This year he didn't even need to play defense at all.

If we get Paul George, all of a sudden Curry will be forced to play defense on Kyrie for the entire game. Lol! He'd get exposed -- again.

This isn't to say Kyrie is some great defender, but people need to stop pretending Curry is even average. He fucking sucks on defense.