2017-2018 Boston Celtics: No Irving! No Hayward! No Brooklyn Pick!

[LeeBuckeye]

List of point guards that have the reputation as elite level defenders:

Conley
Rubio
Holiday
CP3
Bledsoe
Wall
Beverley

All of them with the exception of Conley and CP3 are lacking something on the other side (Penetration, shooting, finishing, consistency). Kyrie just has to play the way he does against GSW (respectable). Even on that list only CP3, Conley, Rubio, and Beverely consistently show effort on defense (See Wall getting destroyed by IT and Schroeder).

If we could find a way to get Beverely, that would be ideal so he can not only come off the bench but play with Irving. Too bad the Clippers made that trade

 

[David.]

This is why eye tests are dumb. See the SportVu data below.

Steph gave up a 66.7% FG on drives. 0.71 Player Points Per Drive. 1.06 Team Points Per Drive.

In isolation, Curry was HORRENDOUS, with a 1.21 Points Per Isolation against and an even worse 1.57 Team Points Per Isolation against.

Curry was BY FAR the worst isolation defender on the Warriors and it wasn't that close.

Kyrie was better defensively in that series, albeit not world beating.

Kyrie gave up a 33.3% FG on drives. 0.47 Player Points Per Drive. 1.13 Team Points Per Drive. Drive defense was pretty damn good, especially PPP.

Kyrie was BY FAR OUR BEST 1-on-1 defender off the dribble in the finals, producing team bests in both numbers above (80+ minutes).

In isolation, Kyrie was solid with a 0.87 Points Per Isolation against and a decent 1.14 Team Points Per Isolation against. Both numbers were fairly average for the team.

So again, Kyrie is fine when he's motivated. I don't love his defense but it is good enough given his immense offensive talents.

You have a link to the methodology?

Sportsvus other defensive data has been questionable

 

[I'mWithDan]

You have a link to the methodology?

Sportsvus other defensive data has been questionable

Those numbers are incredibly cut and dry.

They're derived by the player you are guarding driving or ISO'ing against you. It's a quantity and efficiency metric.

Some of the other SportVu data tries to quantify more gray areas but ISO and drive defense are easy ones to get a consistent measure on.

 

[Tlyons]

STL per /36: 1.2
iScore 20+ ft: 87.4
Jumper FG%: 40.6%
EFG surrendered: 56.4%
Stop Percentage: 50.6%
Points Per Touch: 1.10
Drives per /36 against: 5.1
Player Points Per Drive: 0.61
Team Points Per Drive: 1.29
Points Per Isolation: 0.87
Team Points Per Isolation: 1.02
Isolation FG%: 41.2%

Can't. Read...have urge...to...eat...tropical Skittles

 

[Wajdi77]

Irving has to improve his defense game a lot!
We don't have any chance if Kyrie and Love don't add a high level defense game to their arsenal!
GSW have to many players that can play in both late of the ball, KD, Green,Klay and even Curry is an underrated defensive player ( and team defense).
Second thing that I don't like in Irving's game is when he has the ball in his hand he doesn't ever look to involve his teammates and this thing becomes so evident when he is going 6-8 min where he is looking only to score and yes he is does, but on mean time our players go cold and that happened for example in game 3 and five.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bee-eazy13]

Ky just needs to turn into Unamimous MVP material and Kev needs to turn into a DPOY candidate this offseason and I think we're set...

 

[Akhan7860]

There is no option BUT to be at a MVP level for Kyrie next year. There comes a time for every elite player in league history where they realize the next year will define their legacy and whether they will ever go from elite level talent to all time great.

I believe next season will be Kyrie's pivotal season. So much rides on next year and honestly the future power balance of the league. If Kyrie doesn't play like a Top 10 player next year, we lose to the Warriors again and Bron most likely leaves. If Kyrie can't attain that level when it matters the most, then if Bron leaves, I think we should move Kyrie too.

I've been one of Kyrie's biggest stans since he entered the league but he's going to have to silence the critics himself with his play next year.

 

[Ohio]

View: https://twitter.com/ImDominik/status/885608123158990850


View: https://twitter.com/DetroitPistons/status/885614876453990402


(AB is Avery Bradley)

 

[Snarly]

View: https://twitter.com/ImDominik/status/885608123158990850


View: https://twitter.com/DetroitPistons/status/885614876453990402


(AB is Avery Bradley)

This is so true and it kills me Kyrie can be even better. I think he has something cooking for us this season. I mean this kid is better than Curry to me and I mean this in the form he is more feared on offense. If he can just defend constantly he would be amazing. Curry has that over him and why Curry will always be seen as better to some. However I heard and seen other players say how they hate planning for the Cavs because Kyrie more than LeBron. It is Kyrie who beats himself half the time.

 

[The Red Viper]

View: https://twitter.com/ImDominik/status/885608123158990850


View: https://twitter.com/DetroitPistons/status/885614876453990402


(AB is Avery Bradley)

Shump - AB trade. Do it.

 

[Flight479]

This is so true and it kills me Kyrie can be even better. I think he has something cooking for us this season. I mean this kid is better than Curry to me and I mean this in the form he is more feared on offense. If he can just defend constantly he would be amazing. Curry has that over him and why Curry will always be seen as better to some. However I heard and seen other players say how they hate planning for the Cavs because Kyrie more than LeBron. It is Kyrie who beats himself half the time.

Before the finals I thought Kyrie was better than Curry too.

 

[Tlyons]

Fuck Steph curry

 

[Soar]

If the Cavs have a shot this year (Melo or not) (Wade or not)

Kyrie really has to become an MVP type player.

Hopefully he can take the next step.

 

[SmudgeHog]

It is Kyrie who beats himself half the time.

I finally rewatched game 5. The cavs were winning, but Kyrie had a ton of bad luck that ended up with him getting beaten up.

He stepped on Mccaw's foot while trying to cross him over, and tweaked his ankle. He landed awkward after a great driving shot and tweaked his knee. He also tied up David west, refused to let go, and got swung around like a rag doll when west tried to twist the ball away from him. and tweaked his everything. (that was the play that resulted in technical fouls in the ensuing arguments)

All three things were things were essentially results of kyrie being aggressive, but by the end of the game, he was royally beat up, and the warriors reclaimed the lead.

I truly think if Kyrie had avoided the physically damaging plays, the cavs would have kept their lead. That is, they had a shot with the players they have - it was just one of those games.

 

[godfather]

Before the finals I thought Kyrie was better than Curry too.

I think we all did, because we're Cav fans. And so we're going to be a little bias.

I think Kyrie has more talent than Steph Curry.

But at this point. It's literally impossible to suggest Kyrie is better than Steph Curry.

There's only one thing to point to - and that's Kyrie out playing him in a series two seasons ago.

He out played him in the finals we won the title. No debate, but that doesn't suddenly mean he's surpassed him.

Curry, IMO, outplayed him in this series.

That doesn't mean Kyrie can't surpass Curry. I think he can, but to do that, he's got to get better in other areas of his game.

As scorers, I'd give Kyrie the slight edge. But Curry is actually more efficient in that area. Kyrie is definitely the more versatile and talented scorer between the two.

But Curry is very efficient - they're neck and neck.

Take away scoring, Curry is better. It's really impossible to deny that.

He's a better play maker, he makes those around him much better compared to Kyrie, he rebounds much better at his position.

And yes, he's a better defender. Too many people are acting as if Curry is garbage defensively, just because he can't guard Kyrie. Which is a hyperbole.

Why does that make him so awful? Kyrie is one of the most difficult covers in the league. Guys like Bradley and Klay struggle against him. I don't expect someone like Curry to be successful against him.

Even though it's true, he struggles in pick-and-roll (not nearly as bad as Kyrie I might add), he still makes more of an impact on that end than Kyrie does, overall...

I'd love it if Kyrie got to at least Curry's level defensively. Meaning he'll always have holes/deficiencies on that side of the ball, but at least finds ways to make up for it.

I hate Curry for the record. Can't stand him. But at this moment, sadly, I still think Curry is better.

But, I don't think Kyrie can't get there. Really curious to see if Kyrie comes back this season a much rounded player.

We need it badly. It's now or never with him.