2017-2018 Boston Celtics: No Irving! No Hayward! No Brooklyn Pick!

[LeeBuckeye]

I don't think its fair to brush off what happened to IT as part of the job yet argue that Kyrie, although idiotic, committed some heinous act by requesting a trade. The NBA is a player driven league hence why some people don't like the NBA and opt for the autocratic nature of the NFL where the owners and league officials hold all the cards. It's not the Cavs vs the Bucks its LeBron vs Giannis, it's been marketed like this for years and they've thrived doing so with the crazy tv contracts. In a 52 man roster that has such turnover with 7 rounds worth of drafting and the volatility of the sport due to injuries, TEAMS can go from being bottom dwellers to Super Bowl champs within a few year. In the NBA, you can be dominate for 10-15 years just by drafting a SINGLE player.

IMO, it sucks to see guys quit on a team and city but that is the nature of the league and its form of volatility is rooted in trades and FA which creates interest all-around.

 

[MirORich]

Around the NBA time. Past time.

It wasn't a surprise trade that still merits some closure

We had the 5-6 weeks from when the trade demand story broke.

Then the deal got announced with BOS

Then the 9 day wait.

Now it been another 5-6 days since it was finalized.

Regardless on your past, present, and future outlook and the guy, its been beaten to death as a CavsTalk topic.

 

[FrontPageNews]

When will this thread just die? He gone.

 

[Gus Zing]

“You’ll see that he’s a better passer. I think the people that watch Kyrie play a lot can see his passing and his potential there as a passer,” Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge told the team’s website. “LeBron (James) was pretty much the point guard in Cleveland, and Kyrie was a point guard often when LeBron wasn’t on the court and so forth. I think he’s a fantastic passer, and I think that defensively he’s got to improve and I think he will in Brad’s system.”

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2017/09/kyrie-irvi...-celtics-coach-brad-stevens-says-danny-ainge/

Not going to completely poo this. There was a time people were calling for Kyrie to take over the offense. Still will be interesting to see if Kyrie can do it for a full season.

 

[buzzdog]

I agree with nearly everything you said here. Well put by the way.

The only thing I have a small qualm with is the last line. Owners don't honor contracts any more than players do. Just look at what the Celtics did to IT...a guy who played through injury and tragedy for them, just shipped off at the first chance at something better.

I beg to differ, IT's situation was a bit different contract-wise. Not having a no trade clause and being in the last year of the contract is a pretty prime time for most NBA players to be a part of a trade. Now to be sure what the Celts did was as ugly as it gets given the relationship between IT and the Celts fans, and IT's commitment to that franchise. Didn't he defer pushing for a contract extension to help the Celts maximize cap room to bring in Haywood? Only to get that rug pulled out from under him? Yes that was pretty shitty, but it was squarely within the parameters of the contract agreement.

I would have been a lot more understanding with Kyrie if he would have either notified the team sooner before all the major moves had been made, or a year later in the final year of his deal after Lebron made his decision.

 

[shoes22]

Not going to completely poo this. There was a time people were calling for Kyrie to take over the offense. Still will be interesting to see if Kyrie can do it for a full season.

I will say there is a small part of me that’s worried that Brad Stevens will turn Kyrie into a 10x better all around player and superstar than he was here.

 

[Gus Zing]

I will say there is a small part of me that’s worried that Brad Stevens will turn Kyrie into a 10x better all around player and superstar than he was here.

This season will tell us a lot about those pg debates.

Especially between Kyrie, IT and Wall.

 

[Akhan7860]

I will say there is a small part of me that’s worried that Brad Stevens will turn Kyrie into a 10x better all around player and superstar than he was here.

I have to say I'm kind of intrigued as to how he plays next year.

 

[LeeBuckeye]

Unlike Melo and Deron Williams who gutted the teams they went to, Kyrie's expectations should be that of IT at minimium. Boston upgraded their talent at point and at the small forward position but the loss of AB evens it out IMO.

I myself blamed Lue and the roster construction not being tailored around Kyrie when LeBron sat. It took LeBron to fill multiple needs just to maximize his talent. Three years later and Kevin Love couldn't play with Kyrie or at least played better without him. I wish I could figure out why two guys who are elite on offense couldn't punish teams with pnr after being mercilessly being beat with it on defense. Ty Lue is terrible but that can't be all of it.

Kyrie needed athletic wings, Big who can efficiently finish around the basket and a defensive guard who can guard the other teams point guard and a secondary scorer. He has that with Brown/Tatum, Horford, Smart and Hayward who is more than just a secondary scorer obviously. I'm not even sure how much better Kyrie is compared to Hayward. Danny Ainge continues to shock me with how little he cares about rebounding and they might have gotten worse in that area.

IT was energetic and brought it every night while Kyrie didn't have the best conditioning and lacked consistent effort. Brad Stevens will hopefully teach him how to get around picks instead of dying on everyone of them but the rest is on him. No LeBron to get you to the last shot, you will have to serve everybody while serving yourself.

I'm just glad IT is motivated and feels that the Celtics didn't get better. The player's tribune piece was tough to read but I'm already all in emotionally with IT and emotionally all out on Kyrie. Can't wait for the press conference tomorrow.

I agree with moving this to around the NBA. It will be an interesting season and this thread will be busy wherever it gets moved to.

 

[Dupp]

Boston will be worse. More "talent", no defense and chemistry out the window when you turn over 3 of your best 4 guys.

 

[cavsfever]

I think Boston will be better than last year. Kyrie is just a better player than IT, even though IT has more heart. I always felt the Kyrie/IT matchup was our ace in the hole when we were playing Boston, although we had the advantage in other ways of course too.

Hayward is a definite upgrade on Crowder as well.

Plus they've added Tatum and Brown has another year of maturity.

I just don't see how they can be worse unless someone gets injured or something.

Plus, they are DEFINITELY better than they would have been without this trade. Without this trade they would have been stuck with an injured IT.

 

[billmac91]

I think Boston will be better than last year. Kyrie is just a better player than IT, even though IT has more heart. I always felt the Kyrie/IT matchup was our ace in the hole when we were playing Boston, although we had the advantage in other ways of course too.

Hayward is a definite upgrade on Crowder as well.

Plus they've added Tatum and Brown has another year of maturity.

I just don't see how they can be worse unless someone gets injured or something.

Plus, they are DEFINITELY better than they would have been without this trade. Without this trade they would have been stuck with an injured IT.

Thomas stated in his ''uninterupted'' piece he doesn't think Boston got better this off-season, and I'm inclined to believe him.

You don't lose your two best perimeter defenders in Bradley and Crowder, who are also both great perimeter shooters, and replace them with Marcus Smart and Gordon Hayward and expect them to be anywhere close to as ''gritty'' or good defensively.

Now you've got Marcus Smart in the starting 5 most likely, and he's lost a lot of weight this off-season preparing to play more minutes and being asked to replace Bradley's defensive role, but he's not a pure shooter at all, and actually needs the ball to be most effective offensively.....which doesn't fit well next to Irving at all. Marcus Smart just is not and never will be a good ''catch and shoot'' player off the ball.

And then it sounds like Boston plans on starting Marcus Morris next to Al Horford. Which isn't a good defensive 4/5 combo at all, especially when you've now lost two of the top 30 defenders in the NBA in Bradley and Crowder.

Yes, in totality, Hayward and Kyrie are upgrades over IT and Crowder, but from a team fit, depth, and defensive perspective.....I don't believe the Celtics are better than last year. Going forward, as their youth develops, maybe it surpasses last years C's squad, but they're at least a year or two away.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Going forward, as their youth develops, maybe it surpasses last years C's squad, but they're at least a year or two away.

And that's Boston's plan. They're not trying to contend this year, they're still essentially rebuilding. They're content to wait out LeBron and the Warriors while continuing to build a culture. Can Kyrie be a key cog in that culture (Holy alliteration Batman)?

We won't know whether or not Ainge struck out on this for a few years. From a pure basketball standpoint, the idea of Kyrie being the beneficiary of organizational stability and coaching consistency from Ainge and Stevens, respectively, is enticing...not unlike LeBron's tenure in Miami.

If we can be objective, there is no more damning product of the Cavs' turmoil than Kyrie Irving. 3 GMs, 3 coaches, and that's not even going into the media circus that is LeBron James. I'm inclined to believe that those were the biggest factors in Kyrie's request; Griffin (a guy Kyrie liked and trusted) being axed was the straw that broke the camel's back.

For Love and other guys, all that is worth the opportunity to play alongside an all-time great and chase titles. For Kyrie, perhaps he truly felt that his growth as a player would be stunted in Cleveland and only an organization with the pedigree of the Celtics could harness and optimize it.

I'm starting to think it's best for both sides. Cavs needed a retool if they had any serious aspirations of beating the Warriors. And I think the weird, bi-polar nature of the regular season Cavs will be gone with Kyrie's departure. I think it was his moodiness and mercurial nature more so than LeBron's that made them a Jekyll and Hyde team so infuriating to watch the majority of the time.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Boston is going to be weak defensively AND on the glass.

Last year they had strong and versatile wing defenders and good rebounders from the wing .
They still have Marcus Smart who's fine, but can't shoot. Kyrie is a poor rebounder and defender. Hayward isn't going to live in the fray like Crowder.

Boston will probably make a move, as constructed they are a worse regular season team unless Brown makes a leap and Tatums a stud off the Bart. Still guys that young usually do not impact winning much unless they're super elite.

They really need Kyrie to make a huge leap all around. And he's very capable, we know he is,but every time he's been in charge of making sure his team won, he has failed miserably, and he has to take most of the blame because the true greats win games regardless of coach, strategy, teammates, etc.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Same with Kyrie honestly. I don't blame him for leaving but he should have notified us earlier.

I was with you until this. This dude's team just went to three straight NBA Finals, winning one and was well on his way to be going to a 4th straight. He truly just gave one of the single best examples of valuing personal accolades and/or accomplishments over the team accolades/accomplishments.