2017-2018 Boston Celtics: No Irving! No Hayward! No Brooklyn Pick!

[Ohio]

Maybe Kyrie shouldn't get too much of the credit for Boston's winning streak. Haven't really missed much of a beat without him.

And now they'll lose to the Russell-less Nets probably just to spite us.

Kyrie hasn't even played that well.

Brad Stevens is the #1 reason that team is where they are right now.

 

[czvo]

Kyrie hasn't even played that well.

Brad Stevens is the #1 reason that team is where they are right now.

I really don't think their roster gets enough credit. Baynes, Horford, Brown, Smart and Rozier are all plus defenders. Tatum is really fucking heady for a rookie, and all of their guys bust their ass defensively. That's how they're winning games. Their offense has been brutal, but they just grind you down on the other end.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Maybe Kyrie shouldn't get too much of the credit for Boston's winning streak. Haven't really missed much of a beat without him.

And now they'll lose to the Russell-less Nets probably just to spite us.

I do kind of wonder if teams will fuck with us through the Nets

Like our enemies Celtics and Warriors. We will see how high effort level they have, if any guys get rest for “nagging injuries”

If the shoe were on the other foot and Golden State had the Nets pick id totally root against the Cavs in any and all Nets games... but I am just a fan

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I still like Fultz and think he can be a star.

But Danny Ainge really robbed Colangelo blind on that trade.

I think Tatum is a surefire all-star. He's a lot better than I thought as an all-around player. I knew he'd be a scorer but he has a good floor game too on both ends.

To land him and another top 10 pick was a grand slam trade for Ainge. Really was. (He hit big on Jaylen Brown too).

Philly fucked up really badly. Tatum would fit there like a glove and they really could use that pick as well, because I think they have real future title contender core parts, but if they had Tatum and still had that draft pick? They would clearly have the best future in the East going forward by a mile. Now it's probably Boston, despite the fact that I think Embiid and Simmons both have ceilings that exceed even Kyrie and Hayward (that I think they will both at least come near achieving).

Lesson to learn from it? Draft the most fluid wing athletes with the best character and work ethic when given the chance above all else and then develop the hell out of those guys.

 

[Cassity14]

I still like Fultz and think he can be a star.

But Danny Ainge really robbed Colangelo blind on that trade.

I think Tatum is a surefire all-star. He's a lot better than I thought as an all-around player. I knew he'd be a scorer but he has a good floor game too on both ends.

To land him and another top 10 pick was a grand slam trade for Ainge. Really was. (He hit big on Jaylen Brown too).

Philly fucked up really badly. Tatum would fit there like a glove and they really could use that pick as well, because I think they have real future title contender core parts, but if they had Tatum and still had that draft pick? They would clearly have the best future in the East going forward by a mile. Now it's probably Boston, despite the fact that I think Embiid and Simmons both have ceilings that exceed even Kyrie and Hayward (that I think they will both at least come near achieving).

Lesson to learn from it? Draft the most fluid wing athletes with the best character and work ethic when given the chance above all else and then develop the hell out of those guys.

Totally agree. Simmons missing his entire rookie year definitely had them viewing guard as a major need apparently. I know he came in as a forward, but I'm a believer that dude is a point guard, especially in today's length-oriented game.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I still like Fultz and think he can be a star.

But Danny Ainge really robbed Colangelo blind on that trade.

I think Tatum is a surefire all-star. He's a lot better than I thought as an all-around player. I knew he'd be a scorer but he has a good floor game too on both ends.

To land him and another top 10 pick was a grand slam trade for Ainge. Really was. (He hit big on Jaylen Brown too).

Philly fucked up really badly. Tatum would fit there like a glove and they really could use that pick as well, because I think they have real future title contender core parts, but if they had Tatum and still had that draft pick? They would clearly have the best future in the East going forward by a mile. Now it's probably Boston, despite the fact that I think Embiid and Simmons both have ceilings that exceed even Kyrie and Hayward (that I think they will both at least come near achieving).

Lesson to learn from it? Draft the most fluid wing athletes with the best character and work ethic when given the chance above all else and then develop the hell out of those guys.

You are funny.. you are great at being a revisionist, but your predictions are way off

You were 100% sure Fultz was going to be a franchise player. You thought Ball was going to be a sure fire all-star.

You thought that trade to get Fultz was excellent at the time.

I think I was the only one who said that trade to get Fultz was just disastrous and that Fultz was going to be less than stellar to put it mildly when I saw him at the Summer League.

I hope the Cavs stay clear of Bruce Brown.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

You are funny.. you are great at being a revisionist, but your predictions are way off

You were 100% sure Fultz was going to be a franchise player. You thought Ball was going to be a sure fire all-star.

You thought that trade to get Fultz was excellent at the time.

I think I was the only one who said that trade to get Fultz was just disastrous and that Fultz was going to be less than stellar to put it mildly when I saw him at the Summer League.

I hope the Cavs stay clear of Bruce Brown.

What’s your point? Never claimed i didn’t like the trade at the time. Was wrong about Tatum and the trade. And yeah i thought very highly of Fultz and still think highly of him but lowly of Colangelo.

Not trying to revise anything. Simply stating what i feel about the trade now. Is that allowed?

As for Lonzo , his shot was always the biggest factor for me and i posted as such. And it’s been worst case scenario for his shot so far. Definitely overrated him at times but did call out legit concerns that have come true.

Also my opinions like anyone else evolves over time..

Also was higher than everyone on Dennis Smith, if you’d like to go check my posts about him all last year....of course I’m apparently bad at predictions? Of course you’re obviously a high level NBA scout or something...right?


As for Fultz....judge Fultz early at your own risk. He needs to get healthy. Still think he’s gonna be an all-star. It’s been 18 games and he’s got a bum shoulder. He has shown ability to get anywhere on the floor, and he proves he can shoot in college. Health/time.

Did you really just want to take shots at me for past posts where maybe a prediction wasn’t right? Nobody bats perfect. I’ve won the last 6 rcf donation bets I’ve made.

If you want we can go back and nitpick every dumb/wrong opinion you’ve posted and I can assure you there is plenty of material to go and do that.

Just don’t see the need to, but for some reason you did. Do you need a pat on the back for being right about the Philly Boston trade? A cookie, perhaps?

Dunno. Maybe it wasn’t your intention to come off like an ass in that post, but that’s how I saw it. And i don’t mind admitting when I’m wrong. Hence the post you quoted...where I openly admit I was wrong and Tatum is a lot better than I thought...only to turn around and get accused of revisionist history to try and claim I was right?

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

What’s your point? Never claimed i didn’t like the trade at the time. Was wrong about Tatum and the trade. And yeah i thought very highly of Fultz and still think highly of him but lowly of Colangelo.

Not trying to revise anything. Simply stating what i feel about the trade now. Is that allowed?

As for Lonzo , his shot was always the biggest factor for me and i posted as such. And it’s been worst case scenario for his shot so far. Definitely overrated him at times but did call out legit concerns that have come true.

Also my opinions like anyone else evolves over time..

Also was higher than everyone on Dennis Smith, if you’d like to go check my posts about him all last year....of course I’m apparently bad at predictions? Of course you’re obviously a high level NBA scout or something...right?


As for Fultz....judge Fultz early at your own risk. He needs to get healthy. Still think he’s gonna be an all-star. It’s been 18 games and he’s got a bum shoulder. He has shown ability to get anywhere on the floor, and he proves he can shoot in college. Health/time.

Did you really just want to take shots at me for past posts where maybe a prediction wasn’t right? Nobody bats perfect. I’ve won the last 6 rcf donation bets I’ve made.

If you want we can go back and nitpick every dumb/wrong opinion you’ve posted and I can assure you there is plenty of material to go and do that.

Just don’t see the need to, but for some reason you did. Do you need a pat on the back for being right about the Philly Boston trade? A cookie, perhaps?

Dunno. Maybe it wasn’t your intention to come off like an ass in that post, but that’s how I saw it. And i don’t mind admitting when I’m wrong. Hence the post you quoted...where I openly admit I was wrong and Tatum is a lot better than I thought...only to turn around and get accused of revisionist history to try and claim I was right?

Shit. When I look at my post now it does seem that way, but I assure you, that wasn't my intention. Sometimes I have the tendency to phrase sentences in a weird way.

Sometimes you just come with these grandiose predictions about certain things like they are a given. It was meant as a joke though and I meant nothing by it.

I welcome you to post my dumb predictions, I mean, not too many though please.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Shit. When I look at my post now it does seem that way, but I assure you, that wasn't my intention. Sometimes I have the tendency to phrase sentences in a weird way.

Sometimes you just come with these grandiose predictions about certain things like they are a given. It was meant as a joke though and I meant nothing by it.

I welcome you to post my dumb predictions, I mean, not too many though please.

Lol. No need my man. We’re solid. Thanks for clarifying.

I had to come back at you just in case you were purposefully coming at me. No interest in going any further. Just a misunderstandig it seems. Under the line below, we go back to basketball...3..2..1.....


__________________________________


Now for a real question....

Aside from defensive effort...does Kyrie look any different through the first 15 games in Boston? Has he taken any kind of leap? Or is he basically the same guy aside from some marginal improvement ?

Because to me he looks the same. He hasn’t turned into Chris Paul just because he’s their best healthy player.

They use Smart as the primary ball handler an awful lot...and I can see why because it unlocks the best version of Kyrie offensively (basically playing the 2 for all intents and purposes).

Props to Kyrie for being talented enough to make it work well with Smart instead of Bron setting him up. The scoring numbers have taken a small hit in terms of efficiency/effectiveness. But they’re scoring enough to win, for now.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

I dont think Tatum is any better or worse than I thought he would be coming out of Duke. I thought he could have been #1 if he were drafted into the right system, and he is in a system that takes advantage of his skillset and Gordon Hayward going down put him in a positon to get that PT early. Now that he's rolling, Morris will have a hard time taking his mins away from him.

Same goes for Kyrie. While here, I felt he was quite possibly THE best scorer in the NBA. Better than Melo, better than Durant, just capable of getting a bucket against anybody at anytime if he were healthy and the right system took advantage of his skillset.

Aaron Baynes so far in his role in Boston looks like a better basketball player than Tristan Thompson has for us since we won the championship.

Jaylen Brown looks like he would be the 3rd best player on our team on a nightly basis this season.

Notice a trend?

Im finding myself saying this "those Boston guys are taking advantage of being in the right system" pretty much 1-9 on their roster, just like I did when Popovich would plug discarded guys like Stephen Jackson or Mike Finley on his last legs... Boston has a great coach and coaching staff and they know how to get the most out of their guys, how to get their guys to buy in and how to game plan to attack opposing defenses.

The difference this season is, Boston upgraded their talent majorly by getting the best end of game scorer in the league for those playoff lulls that you are counting on them not being ready for IBWT. I need to see something crazy from LeBron to ensure that all we are waiting for is him to flip his "switch" (I hate that I am accepting that this is even a real thing, but I guess its the price I have to pay for the greatest to play in my city), without that, I dont think the Cavs beat Boston, even without Gordon Hayward.

They're for real, and they've upgraded their "system guys" into legit talented albeit young guys who are now playing within a established system, instead.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Lol. No need my man. We’re solid. Thanks for clarifying.

I had to come back at you just in case you were purposefully coming at me. No interest in going any further. Just a misunderstandig it seems. Under the line below, we go back to basketball...3..2..1.....


__________________________________


Now for a real question....

Aside from defensive effort...does Kyrie look any different through the first 15 games in Boston? Has he taken any kind of leap? Or is he basically the same guy aside from some marginal improvement ?

Because to me he looks the same. He hasn’t turned into Chris Paul just because he’s their best healthy player.

They use Smart as the primary ball handler an awful lot...and I can see why because it unlocks the best version of Kyrie offensively (basically playing the 2 for all intents and purposes).

Props to Kyrie for being talented enough to make it work well with Smart instead of Bron setting him up. The scoring numbers have taken a small hit in terms of efficiency/effectiveness. But they’re scoring enough to win, for now.

For sure. Had to clarify.. was hard reading your response, but I prevailed!

As for Kyrie, I'd like to point out how he has been defensively aswell.

So, he still stucks at handling screens, he still dies , but instead of "trying" to recover to his man and often getting stuck in no mans land without a position to rebound or make any defensive play, he either Ices the screen because he has Horford covering his back or he switches instantly to cover the screener.

So there are 3 things here,
1. Boston's scheme is much much better. Irving is still a dumb defender and a lot of times after he is being switched against the big man he doesn't recognize the opportunity to switch back to the smaller guy on the wing. You see his teammates consantly telling him to switch

2. Also, he is much more scrappy. If he ends up defending the big man, he will not give up on the play like he did here. He would try to get a steal, contest a shot or body him up. With us he would often give up on the play.

3. They have better personnel to cover for his PnR ability and a perfect scheme to to adjust on the fly to things that would make our defense completely break down. They fix them on the fly without any problem. Boston switch ALOT, but they do it in a smart way, not like us.


Offensively, you can see that he tries to be a facilitator, you can see that he wants to be that lead guard, but in reality he still tries to make a flashy pass rather than make the correct pass at the right time. He is a better decision maker(but still a slow one) and he finds their shooters a hell of a lot more than he did on the Cavs. His two man game with Hoford is like nothing we have seen him do with Love and he finds Tatum and Brown on the wings much more than he ever found JR, Korver or anyone else for that matter.

I don't know if KYrie acts better as a 2 guard on the Celtics. When I see him do that I often look at him and it just looks like he is conserving energy. He tries to do more off the ball, but he is just terrible at setting screens or understanding the offense what he needs to do off the ball. He is just not a smart basketball player.

You can see that Kyrie tries to be a team player much more under Stevens, but when he thinks it's time to be the man, he doesn't pass the ball.

All in all, Kyrie was lucky to be traded to Boston, because I truly think he would have been worse than he was on the Cavs if he were traded to teams that he had on his list.

 

[cavsfever]

ter.


All in all, Kyrie was lucky to be traded to Boston, because I truly think he would have been worse than he was on the Cavs if he were traded to teams that he had on his list.

Still really fucking irritated we traded him to Boston. Maybe we had to trade him eventually, but we didn't have to be panicked into trading him to Boston.

 

[czvo]

You are funny.. you are great at being a revisionist, but your predictions are way off

You were 100% sure Fultz was going to be a franchise player. You thought Ball was going to be a sure fire all-star.

You thought that trade to get Fultz was excellent at the time.

I think I was the only one who said that trade to get Fultz was just disastrous and that Fultz was going to be less than stellar to put it mildly when I saw him at the Summer League.

I hope the Cavs stay clear of Bruce Brown.

Uh... you also said taking Tatum third was "insane" because Smith and Jackson were a tier above them.

Taking Tatum 3rd is insane.

Josh Jackson and Smith are a tier above him so he should probably stay at 5.
I don't think he is a difference maker.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Uh... you also said taking Tatum third was "insane" because Smith and Jackson were a tier above them.

When was it?

I changed my view on Tatum and had him as the best player in the draft on realgm.

But it's great that you found a way to check posting history from the other thread!

 

[Los216]

When was it?

I changed my view on Tatum and had him as the best player in the draft on another forum.

But it's great that you found a way to check posting history from the other thread!