2018 Draft Prospects Thread

[dark2332]

I have given Kizer about as long of a leash as anyone, but I'm at the end of it. I tried very hard to defend him on these boards--speaking much of his lack of weapons. It's true, his weapons are bad. They are doing him no favors. If it's not a perfect throw, it's not being caught. Hell, some perfect throws aren't being caught. Additionally, Hue Jackson has done him no favors with the playbook.

As a rookie, you know there's going to be some poor decisions. The game is moving quickly. Interceptions are going to happen. Rooting for DeShone Kizer is probably a lot like being a 20 handicap golfer. Much of your day is spent frustrated, but that gorgeous 7-iron on 12 and the 30 foot putt on 17 keep you coming back for more. Sometimes, he looks like he has Pro-Bowl potential. We all know the size, smarts, strength, athletic ability, and arm velocity are there. When it's good, it's so good. That's the problem. I WANTED him to succeed so badly--I think he's a good kid, and he has so many tools. But in the end, as many of you have said, he's just not consistently accurate enough. That's not something that generally gets better. Thus... I believe we need to find a quarterback.

I'm on record of not loving this draft class of quarterbacks.

I also have been pretty anti-Rosen to date. Admittedly, his entitled "smartest man in the world" attitude had turned me off. I've questioned his commitment to football. Combine that with some questionable decision making and a worrisome injury history to his throwing shoulder, and I have been against this guy.

That said, some of you have made me go back and look at more tape on him, and he has the goods. His decision making is suspect. His injuries scare me. But you guys at least have me open to him. I wouldn't have said that a few weeks ago.

If the Browns do their homework and believe his maturity, attitude, and general love of the game are present--I'd understand the choice. To be a quarterback in this league, you must be committed beyond belief. If they think he's going to be, good. Is there a chance he's Ryan Leaf? We'll see. These boards have at least made me open to the idea of him.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I'm on record of not loving this draft class of quarterbacks.

I also have been pretty anti-Rosen to date. Admittedly, his entitled "smartest man in the world" attitude had turned me off. I've questioned his commitment to football. Combine that with some questionable decision making and a worrisome injury history to his throwing shoulder, and I have been against this guy.

All of these concerns are legitimate. I don't think his attitude is too big of an issue. Even "awww shucks" Peyton Manning was a bit of an asshole in college. Tom Brady was a ladies man who didn't make it to the weight room often enough at Michigan. Rosen is driven, just immature at times. I'm more concerned with Mayfield's indiscretions.

The specialization as a quarterback early for Rosen has caused more wear and tear in his throwing shoulder, absolutely. However, that is a consistent issue with this entire generation of blue chip athlete. Baseball is struggling with specialization on joints even more. American youth athletics are due for a course correction eventually, but Rosen's problems are no different than the problems other QBs will be facing.

In the end, this is a guy who has already been working in a modified West Coast Offense for a year, and that's a great head start for a blue chip college QB.

 

[dark2332]

All of these concerns are legitimate. I don't think his attitude is too big of an issue. Even "awww shucks" Peyton Manning was a bit of an asshole in college. Tom Brady was a ladies man who didn't make it to the weight room often enough at Michigan. Rosen is driven, just immature at times. I'm more concerned with Mayfield's indiscretions.

The specialization as a quarterback early for Rosen has caused more wear and tear in his throwing shoulder, absolutely. However, that is a consistent issue with this entire generation of blue chip athlete. Baseball is struggling with specialization on joints even more. American youth athletics are due for a course correction eventually, but Rosen's problems are no different than the problems other QBs will be facing.

In the end, this is a guy who has already been working in a modified West Coast Offense for a year, and that's a great head start for a blue chip college QB.

I appreciate the response, Keys. I would say that his shoulder issue was an injury, not the normal "wear-and-tear" considering he missed a season and required surgery, but if he's having no issues this year, I can't really hold that against him. He has the velocity still.

Hue Jackson--if he's retained--loves everyone. He's a kid in a candy store and as fickle as them come with who "his guy" is. That said, with Rosen's experience with west coast concepts, you're exactly right. Jackson would likely fall in love with how advanced he is given that experience, and he'll likely be his biggest advocate in the war room.

 

[Pick6]

Dane's first mock:
http://nfldraftscout.com/members/news/cfb_column.php?story_id=182730

 

[Spectre]

I think some on here are vastly underselling Rosen's personality negatives...

http://draftanalyst.com/tuesday-draft-notes-110

Josh Rosen drew a wider spectrum of opinions, both good and bad.

Scouts and general managers on hand were much more enthusiastic on his passing skills, mentioning many of his throws are “off the charts” and his ability to place the ball into the targets’ hands has not been seen on the college field in a long time.

They mentioned his poise, patience and the fact that, unlike Darnold, he does not have mental lapses on the field or show poor judgement with throws.

The consensus on Rosen is he makes everyone around him better. His skill players are marginal prospects for the next level, yet Rosen’s ability to get the ball into their hands helps elevate their games.

As one scout said, Rosen is “ready to go” for the next level -- at least in the passing department.

For more than a month now, I’ve heard there are a number of personality issues with Rosen that have rubbed NFL people the wrong way.

When speaking about the signal caller, at least two general managers have said “stay away.” One general manager, whose team will likely end up with a top-12 selection and needs a quarterback, said he would not select him from his early off-the-field evaluations.

Opinions are that Rosen is not the leader they need on the field for the next level -- the things he’s gotten away with on the college field won’t fly in the NFL. The word egotistical was mentioned many times in referring to Rosen.

I’m told many of his UCLA teammates love Rosen the quarterback but are not big fans of Rosen the person. It made me reflect back to many of the things I heard and reported on Connor Cook as he went through the draft process.

If nothing else, Rosen’s personality is something that will be closely inspected moving towards the draft by teams considering using an early selection to acquire his services. Teams will have to weigh Rosen’s awesome on the field potential versus off the field personality red flags.

When our rankings are released next week Josh Rosen will be graded as our top quarterback.

The word is Rosen to the draft is a done deal, while Darnold’s decision is still a long way from being finalized.

I get wanting to fall in love with a QB at the top of this draft but this isn't just a super intellectual guy who speaks his mind... he's also a egotistical prick and that's not going to play well in an NFL locker room. Part of the reason Wentz has taken off with the Eagles is that he's the exact opposite. Ability only goes so far...

 

[Randolphkeys]

I think some on here are vastly underselling Rosen's personality negatives...

http://draftanalyst.com/tuesday-draft-notes-110



I get wanting to fall in love with a QB at the top of this draft but this isn't just a super intellectual guy who speaks his mind... he's also a egotistical prick and that's not going to play well in an NFL locker room. Part of the reason Wentz has taken off with the Eagles is that he's the exact opposite. Ability only goes so far...

The top four or five QBs in this draft class all have serious question marks. If you want to find a reason not to like one of them, your search for confirmation of that bias will be a short search. The most savvy move for a starting quality QB on the past two seasons was the Niners rolling the dice on Jimmy Garoppalo. They can trade back or take Minkah.

But Browns know a top 15 QB doesn't fall in your lap easily or cheap. With all the self flogging about the Wentz trade, The Eagles had decent roster talent when they moved all those picks while the Browns were a depleted roster. The Browns need to finally cash in all those delayed gratification assets this draft, and that means solving the quarterback riddle. Rosen is no lock, bit there really is no lock behind Mystery Door #3.

 

[dark2332]

The top four or five QBs in this draft class all have serious question marks. If you want to find a reason not to like one of them, your search for confirmation of that bias will be a short search. The most savvy move for a starting quality QB on the past two seasons was the Niners rolling the dice on Jimmy Garoppalo. They can trade back or take Minkah.

But Browns know a top 15 QB doesn't fall in your lap easily or cheap. With all the self flogging about the Wentz trade, The Eagles had decent roster talent when they moved all those picks while the Browns were a depleted roster. The Browns need to finally cash in all those delayed gratification assets this draft, and that means solving the quarterback riddle. Rosen is no lock, bit there really is no lock behind Mystery Door #3.

First overall this year is like having a pair of movie passes that expire next week and there are nothing but shitty movies in-theater right now.

We'll use it, it just might be on the 37th minion movie.

 

[vam1993]

I think some on here are vastly underselling Rosen's personality negatives...

http://draftanalyst.com/tuesday-draft-notes-110



I get wanting to fall in love with a QB at the top of this draft but this isn't just a super intellectual guy who speaks his mind... he's also a egotistical prick and that's not going to play well in an NFL locker room. Part of the reason Wentz has taken off with the Eagles is that he's the exact opposite. Ability only goes so far...

Would you have taken jameis at 1 overall? I think he had more severe character concerns coming out.

aikman and elway both are some of the biggest assholes according to those who are involved with the hall of fame. (im from canton).

Its not that im dismissing the idea of character issues playing a role in a toxic locker room. In my college team we had an entitled high jumper who thought he deserved everything and didnt want to work hard. We despised him unless it was a major meet and he was scoring points for our team. After a number of incidents his scholarship was pulled and he was kicked off the team.

Its the job of the scouting staff to figure out if its truly concerning or not. Does he work hard or does he milk injuries. Do his teammates not like rosen the person or do they despise him off the field. Is he the 80s rich kid ski villain or is he just have an unlikable vibe.

Im firmly in the camp that the evaluation needs to play itself out, but i think he is certainly the best pro ready prospect. The browns have been losing my whole life. I dont think were in the position to be so picky about a qb prospect. Im going to trust the scouting process on rosen. (which btw nailed manziel's character issues- being two faced/substance issues/etc. For some reason top level execs (farmer+haslam) ignored these reports). If he is red flagged by our staff because hes just too big of an ass to work with, fine.

Mayfield has character issues, rosen has character issues, darnold has decision issues. All of the top qb prospects this year have question marks. From an outsiders perspective, rosen seems to have the most raw talent with the most acceptable level of risk.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[Lee]

The top four or five QBs in this draft class all have serious question marks. If you want to find a reason not to like one of them, your search for confirmation of that bias will be a short search. The most savvy move for a starting quality QB on the past two seasons was the Niners rolling the dice on Jimmy Garoppalo. They can trade back or take Minkah.

But Browns know a top 15 QB doesn't fall in your lap easily or cheap. With all the self flogging about the Wentz trade, The Eagles had decent roster talent when they moved all those picks while the Browns were a depleted roster. The Browns need to finally cash in all those delayed gratification assets this draft, and that means solving the quarterback riddle. Rosen is no lock, bit there really is no lock behind Mystery Door #3.

This feels like the Manning/leaf draft again.

Manning was the arrogant rich kid who some thought would be tough enough for the NFL. SO leaf with the arm talent and swagger and all those big numbers in a wide open west coast system shot up the boards and the debate for Indy was on.

I personally am leaning toward Rosen, just seems the best pick.

 

[Phills14]

Besides being under weight what is the knock on Lamar Jackson?

 

[Triplethreat]

Besides being under weight what is the knock on Lamar Jackson?

Inaccurate down the field, small frame, uses his legs too much.

 

[sportscoach]

Besides being under weight what is the knock on Lamar Jackson?

Probably won't be ready day one, outside of that the tools are there. He's either gonna be a Vick or a Young. I think he will be a Vick.

If we do not go and get a veteran QB/a stopgap we almost have to draft Rosen since I feel he's likely the most NFL ready. I mean he feels like an Eli Manning to me and heck he isn't ever gonna be an Elite QB, but he will be a solid NFL QB.

It's guys like Darnold and Allen who are hit or miss. They will be booms or busts! Mayfield I think is a good prospect but if we are drafting a QB number 1 in my mind it's gotta be Rosen. If we sign a veteran and want to develop a guy it's Allen in my mind.

There's a good probability 6-7 of these QBs if not more will see starting time in the NFL in their careers. The question is who will be the elite one of the class.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Besides being under weight what is the knock on Lamar Jackson?

The number one reason he has been falling off on draft boards is inaccurate passing. He has some mechanical issues when he sets his front foot to throw, which leads to "all arm" throws.

The other layers to his game which is a concern is that his game is usually one read throws. The plays are designed for Jackson to check if the primary receiver is open, then take off running. This season, his coordinator is challenging him to make some progressions to prepare for the pros, but it's sprinkled in rather than his primary focus as a passer. He is such a good runner, it's just easier for the Louisville offense for him to run if the first throw isn't there.

He might end up being really good if he has a bridge QB and a patient quarterbacks coach. If he's rushed on the field he will get injured after four games, in my opinion.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

It would be so sad if we ended up taking the guy with huge maturity red flags who had next to no talent as an NFL QB in the first round and then turn around and pass on an actually NFL talented QB because he's outspoken and abrasive

Like if you're going to take outlandish characters, at least take the talented ones

Manziel was a bigger douchebag cunt-shake than Rosen by far and was maybe 1/10th as talented

God that was such a waste of a pick the second it was announced

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Ability only goes so far...

Well considering we haven't even had a QB with ability in decades I'm willing to see how far ability without the moxie takes us