2018 Draft Prospects Thread

[Ohio]

Oh my god if we draft Rosen after all this smoke, so excited.

I'd be so happy I'd probably cry

I've pretty much given up on Rosen being the pick

 

[chrisrich91]

Well if we’re going that way he clearly stated hand size.

And then specifically said he worries about that with a guy like Darnold and all his fumbles.

I didn't hear that. He did mention hand size a lot, but didn't say that was a concern with Darnold.

Earlier in the conversation he was asked about Darnold's fumbles and he specifically mentioned Darnold's mechanics with holding onto the ball and how the fumbles were forced, not hand size.

At the combine he said all the top QB prospects had adequate hand size by his standards.

#handsizehandsizehandsize

 

[Triplethreat]

I didn't hear that. He did mention hand size a lot, but didn't say that was a concern with Darnold.

Earlier in the conversation he was asked about Darnold's fumbles and he specifically mentioned Darnold's mechanics with holding onto the ball and how the fumbles were forced, not hand size.

At the combine he said all the top QB prospects had adequate hand size by his standards.

#handsizehandsizehandsize

He said it. Go back and listen to when they start talking about hand size.

He said you worry about it with a guy like Darnold and his fumbles.

 

[Midwestcav]

A bit of draft jargon that makes no sense to me is "arm talent". Almost all of the draft analysts say that Josh Allen has elite arm talent, and yet I didn't see many of those touch throws where he drops it in a bucket where defenders can't make a play on the ball. I definitely saw those throws where guys with lesser arm strength can't fit it in that small window, but that seems like only half of the equation for me.

A guy who deserves the "elite arm talent" tag for me is Pat Mahomes. The dude could make ridiculous throws from all sorts of different arm angles and foot positions and showed off both strength and touch.

Did you watch the Senior Bowl? Where Allen got to play with some talent around him? All Allen has done is improve since he came back from a shoulder injury. It started in his bowl game. He showed arm strength, timing, touch pass , and dropping it in. Since his bowl game he has been working on his footwork and taking some off the ball.

His receivers at Wyoming couldn't get any separation for him to throw most passes. Yesterday there was an article out showing he was pressured in the pocket by a large margin more than any other qb's that are going to be drafted in the top 15. Wyoming's offense is not built around Allen, it is built around the running game. So when Allen did get to pass, it was usually on 2nd or 3rd down and long. That meant pressure was coming. Wyoming's OC is one of the worst in the country. 3 out of his four years at Wyoming his offenses have been in the area of the 220 worst ranked teams offensively.

The philosophy at Wyoming is to run clock, control the clock with the running game, and stick around and try to win the game. The run game at Wyoming this year averaged something like 2.2 yards a carry. Allen was saddled with a passing game that threw sideline passes used to take the place of running the ball. His receivers rarely ran routes across the middle, and the O line started 2 freshman, 2 sophomores, and 1 senior. What is crazy to me is how Bohl and Vigen have found three quarterbacks in the last decade that will play pro ball. And two of them getting drafted possiby in the top 5. At North Dakota State they had Jensen and Wentz. As we all know Wentz went #2. And then they found Allen once Bohl took the Wyoming job. Bohl played at Nebraska under Tom Osborne, and he took a lot of that style of play with him. But Bohl believes in wearing a team down with the run game and then taking it to them in the 4th quarter. The same thing Osborne did when Nebraska dominated college football. So to understand why Allens stats are what they are, one has to look at the big picture. Why Bohl and Vigen won't build around a guy who has that much talent is amazing to me.

One thing about Allen people don't look at but Cleveland fans might understand, Allen has gotten Wyoming to 8 wins in both years he has started. And he missed 2 games this year. And Allens first year we were picked next to last. I do believe this year we were picked in the middle in some polls. In his first year with a little more talent he got us in the championship game against San Diego State in a close loss. Beating that same team two weeks earlier. And the week before that beating a good Boise State team in a close game. Both teams in the top 25 that year. But if you ever really saw how bad our OC was and our skill level, or lack of, then maybe you could see why Allen struggles at times. And what gets me is that people wonder why his stats are what they are. Run him down all you want, but until you actually know all the factors or what challenges he faced, you will be talking out of your butt. Even the so called experts don't do their homework. It amazes me how many of them won't do their own research. And if they do, they tilt that info to whatever argument they are trying to make. I don't believe the experts on any of the top four qb's. The only one I have a small fault is on Baker, and his heigth. If not being able to see over the line will affect him much. But they all have good arms and football IQ.

He could have went in the draft last year knowing what he had waiting for him if he came back to Wyoming, but he knew he wasn't ready, and he had loyalty to Bohl and Wyoming. So he toughed it out knowing he could get injured and be out of football real easily. I am not going to pretend on knowing where he is going in the draft. And won't keep chanting it over and over hoping he won't get drafted by a type of team he is just leaving. I would rather have him go to a team that he has a chance to win. Allen definitely needs time to mature and work on his game. No argument there. But if he does go to the Browns, you guys will end up loving him. He is a great guy who will embrace Cleveland. Who will become a part of Ohio. Not some qb who runs back to Cali as soon as the season is over. I understand you guys not wanting him, but you don't have to take it or make it personal. Allen is a quality kid. You will or never have heard him say anything negative about his coaching staff or his teammates. He is not like that. I am not a big Browns fan, but I think you guys have great fans. You guys are a lot like Wyoming fans, we have also waited a long time for some good football. So we definitely understand you guys. He isn't perfect but he will work hard to get there. Sorry about the long post. It is hard to get all that info out there.

 

[Ohio]

Yeah, @Triplethreat is right. Dorsey specifically mentioned hand size/Darnold's fumbles being something you think about. He didn't mention any other QB in that discussion.

I took it as a thought out, calculated comment.

That and the accuracy comment were my two biggest takeaways.

I was pretty convinced Darnold was the pick, now I have no idea what to expect.

 

[chrisrich91]

He said it. Go back and listen to when they start talking about hand size.

He said you worry about it with a guy like Darnold and his fumbles.

I did, it's around the 12:00 mark.

I interpreted it differently than you. You heard him drawing the connection. I did not. Neither of us can really say what he meant.

They had talked about Darnold's fumbles earlier and he said you look at the mechanics of him holding the football and the ways fumbles were forced. Reporter followed up with "is it hard to fix?" and Dorsey responded with a fairly emphatic "No, I don't think it is."

When hand size came up later, here's his quote exactly: "Hand size in November and December when the elements are, you know, it's snowing and it's raining and it's getting muddy, I mean the hand size. And that's - that's what you were talking about in terms of the fumbles of Darnold, sometimes you know you're worried about that sometimes. So hand size."

To me that was him explaining that hand size could cause fumbles, and referencing that concern back to the reporter asking about Darnold's fumbles.

He is on the record as saying hand size is important and he's glad all the QB's hand sizes checked out at the combine. So unless he changed his mind on his threshold for hand size, I don't think he was damning Darnold's today.

Also I'd be shocked to see Dorsey speak cryptically about everything to this point but then come out and say "this is an important quality for me, and ______ doesn't have it". Think it was just poorly worded on his part.

 

[DJTJ]

Can anyone remember how many pouring rain/mud or heavy snow games the browns have played in the last ten years?

Less than 5? It’s such a weird thing that always gets brought up.

 

[Sebastian]

It has to be fun going up in front of the press and intentionally fucking with people with half-truths and the occasional bald-faced lie.

Undoubtedly the Bills and Giants have hired body-language experts to read Dorsey's intentions.

 

[Triplethreat]

Can anyone remember how many pouring rain/mud or heavy snow games the browns have played in the last ten years?

Less than 5? It’s such a weird thing that always gets brought up.

Well one reason for that is because they’re never playing into late December and January

But if Aaron Rodgers can do it as well as he does there’s not really a “type” of player that can do it better than another.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

What qualifies as a blitz? How many players need to be sent outside of the front 3/4?

The other consideration is the quality of the offensive line. A top OL is going to make their QB look much better when the defense decides to blitz. Both UCLA and USC had crappy lines -- Oklahoma had one of the best offensive lines in the whole country.

 

[DJTJ]

Well one reason for that is because they’re never playing into late December and January

But if Aaron Rodgers can do it as well as he does there’s not really a “type” of player that can do it better than another.

But even in a playoff game; I can’t remember otherteams playing in crazy weather games either.

There was only one in the league last season.

 

[sportscoach]

The other consideration is the quality of the offensive line. A top OL is going to make their QB look much better when the defense decides to blitz. Both UCLA and USC had crappy lines -- Oklahoma had one of the best offensive lines in the whole country.

Mayfield has a quick release and ability to continue plays, but he did end up being the starter for a very good overall team and the same with Rudolph. The other 4 guys in the top 5 honestly didn’t have the best teams in their conferences at the end of the day. You will see once a player gets to the pros how they will adapt to their new teams, but Mayfield’s numbers got inflated cause of his team while Rosen’s, Darnold’s, Allen’s etc could have been better on a better team.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Le'Veon Bell who is the highest paid RB in the league is making $16M this year on the Franchise Tag.

View: https://twitter.com/JoeBanner13/status/986711449652420608

I don't know where Banner got his information but it's wrong.

If Barkley is drafted in the top-10 his fifth-year team-option would be the average of the top-10 at his position... so way less than $20 million.

It's actually more realistic that Barkley's fifth-year team-option will be lower than the last year of his rookie contract. Leonard Fournette is only on the 2nd year of his rookie contract and he's already the 5th highest-paid RB in the league.

That should really illustrate how devalued the RB position is right now- you're basically forgoing the supposed cheap rookie contract if you pick a RB early because right off the bat you're handing them a Jerick McKinnon sized deal that's heavily-guaranteed.

Ugh, hard pass.

 

[getBUCKED]

Josh Allen 2017 Film Notes

The Good:

• Very good outside thrower, particularly in outs and comebacks. His arm strength shines when he is required to drive the ball on a line in rhythm.
• Prototypical QB size with plus athleticism. He runs tough, but also takes big hits on designed runs - injury history.
  
• Has experience playing under center with nice footwork. He is good in play-action on the run when he has space to see the field.
• Competes hard. Teammates looked to him to lead the team given the immense talent gap.
• Shows the (inconsistent) ability to diagnose pre-snap and know where to go with the ball.

The Bad:

• Inconsistent arm talent - Can display touch but also short arms/floats the ball just as much.
• Panics when he does not have a clean pocket. Affects both decision making and accuracy.
• Happy feet under pressure. Quickly converts to his "scramble mode." His athleticism and size shine here as he shakes off 250 lb defenders. However, he holds on the ball too long as he tries too much when he switches modes. He is NOT a great playmaker.
• Does not work the middle of the field. He also does not work the deep ball boundaries well.
• Misses easy throws - inconsistent is the best adjective to describe his game.
• He gets away with a lot more mistakes due to his arm. He will drift backwards at times in the pocket and throw off his back foot. He still has nice velocity on these throws.
  
• His teammates aren't good but they are not his issue. He has never played with good players dating back to high school. This is evident when the game speed increased. He beats up bad teams, then just piss poor performances against Power 5 schools. This is a key factor for me as it proves just how far he has to go.
• He did not really improve greatly from 2016 to 2017. He seems like a good, smart kid who has a chance to develop given his tools. However, he needs the most time to develop. He plays young and needs to sit back and absorb as much as he can and go to work on his flaws. His development would be an easy 2+ year timeline for me.

tl;dr: The bad outweigh the good. His talent is better than his film. First round talent? Sure, I'll buy. #1 overall? No way.

 

[Spectre]

Can anyone remember how many pouring rain/mud or heavy snow games the browns have played in the last ten years?

Less than 5? It’s such a weird thing that always gets brought up.

It’s looking ahead to actually playing meaningful games at home in November/December (which makes people laugh) but the thought isn’t a bad one in theory.

Cleveland is almost a 50% chance to have some kind of precipitation in those months with average temperatures just above (Nov) or below (Dec) freezing. It makes sense that you’d want a guy who can play in that weather if need be.