2018 Draft Prospects Thread

[Los216]

Josh Allen i feel is still my target in the draft for a QB. He needs a bit of time to sit and learn but he was a kid who had to walk on at a Junior College and ended up in Wyoming on a bad team.

Now that being said I am drafting him if he has the chance to sit for a season or two along with Kizer. Both guys are big strong protype QBs. We need an actual veteran QB to lead this team. Either like an Alex Smith, aka the older smart QB, or a transitional guy aka a McCarron who knows the offense but is still young and hungry to prove himself.

If I was a team like Pittsburgh I would take him late in the first round. He needs to sit but in the right place he will be a legit QB

Guys like Rosen will be like an Eli Manning. Will be a solid NFL QB, but health issues all the time, will be my only question with him. Mayfield seems like a 15 area NFL Ranked QB. Will never be a top guy, but should be a solid QB. That’s all Cleveland needs. Guys like Darnold are wild cards since they do so much right and so much wrong. Jackson is too thin for the next level, i think he will be an RG3. Good couple seasons then injuries ruin him.

My rank for QB

Rosen
Mayfield
Allen
Darnold

How is Jackson too thin? Goff is thinner. Tyrod is smaller and not as fast and his a top 15 QB. I swear the two most overstated things with these QB's are Mayfield's height and Jackson's frame. Neither are deal breakers. If the worse part about their game is their height and frame it really sounds like people just don't like them and would prefer the other QB's because they think that's what the NFL wants. I urge people to really look around the league and examine just the difference in QB's in the league right now.

There is no prototype QB in the NFL right now. There is no single blueprint to follow.



Tom Brady
Matt Ryan
Peyton Manning
Cam Newton
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
Colin Kaepernick
Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Rothlisburger
Kurt Warner
Rex Grossman

These are QB's from the last 10 Super Bowls. There are multiple different styles of QB's on that list. There's statue pocket passers, mobile, guys with big arm, bad accuracy issues, game managers, gun slingers. Point is there are many different versions of FQB's that can get you to a Super Bowl. We have to stop acting like the NFL hasn't evolved and be more open to different styles of QB's. Don't limit yourself to NFL groupthink on QB's.

 

[sportscoach]

How is Jackson too thin? Goff is thinner. Tyrod is smaller and not as fast and his a top 15 QB. I swear the two most overstated things with these QB's are Mayfield's height and Jackson's frame. Neither are deal breakers. If the worse part about their game is their height and frame it really sounds like people just don't like them and would prefer the other QB's because they think that's what the NFL wants. I urge people to really look around the league and examine just the difference in QB's in the league right now.

There is no prototype QB in the NFL right now. There is no single blueprint to follow.



Tom Brady
Matt Ryan
Peyton Manning
Cam Newton
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
Colin Kaepernick
Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Rothlisburger
Kurt Warner
Rex Grossman

These are QB's from the last 10 Super Bowls. There are multiple different styles of QB's on that list. There's statue pocket passers, mobile, guys with big arm, bad accuracy issues, game managers, gun slingers. Point is there are many different versions of FQB's that can get you to a Super Bowl. We have to stop acting like the NFL hasn't evolved and be more open to different styles of QB's. Don't limit yourself to NFL groupthink on QB's.

Goff has 15-20lbs on Lamar Jackson and Jackson doesn’t have any room in his frame to actually get bigger. This matters in a position that gets tackled and hit a lot. Tyrod Taylor is bigger than Jackson as well. Jackson is rail thin and his frame is rail thin.

He can get away with his size as a WR, but not as a QB. I bet he is wiry strong, but how many QBs like him have ever made it in the NFL? He is smaller than even Vick was weight wise and three inches taller. For Frame, height doesn’t matter, I am referring to the width of your bones and the width of your hips. He has no width in either spot.

I am a person who advocated Wilson would be an NFL starter, I don’t give a crap about height or 40 speed, since in the NFL it’s your footwork and lateral quickness that matters in the QB position.

 

[Los216]

Put him on a good team and I think you would be changing your tune. He is closer to Wentz when it comes to ability. I was high on Wentz and I like Allen. Allen is on a very bad team and has a chip on his shoulder. He is a big guy, 6’5 and runs 4.6-4.7 range with likely the strongest arm in the draft. His numbers do not match his skill set. Have you actually sat down and watched him play behind an extremely bad OLine and not very good WRs?

What do you think? @Randolphkeys @Los216

Edit: I didn’t notice my dry error that goes along with my dry humor @Lee

See this is what I'm talking about right here. Josh Allen is not a good Qb right now. Going to a good team is not going to make him a good QB either. I've seen all of his games this year. He's simply not good right now. He's a mid round pick right now and he also hurt his shoulder on Saturday. According to his mom his has a sprained AC joint on his throwing shoulder. That's not good. If you want my honest opinion I think he should grad transfer to a big school for next year. If he doesn't do that and he enters the draft he needs to sit for at least two years. He's that far away. Kizer and Mahomes were both supposed to sit for at least 1 year. Allen is way behind even where they were.


The first thing you mentioned with Allen was his size and honestly unless a QB is really small and his size has limited him in college then size is not one of the first 3 things Im even concerned about. I don't care about Josh Allen's size because he's not a good QB. I'm not worried about Baker Mayfield's size because he is a very good QB. See?

Josh Allen does not have the strongest arm in this upcoming draft. Lamar Jackson does. And it's by a lot. You said his numbers don't match his skillset and I disagree with you there. His numbers are reflective of where he is right now. You mentioned his O-line and WR's being bad but Lamar Jackson is breaking records without a single draftable player on his offense right now. Kizer didn't have a single player get drafted that he played with on offense last year.

Josh Allen is exactly what he looks like right now. There's a whole lot of wishful thinking with him and that's fine because I get it but he's nowhere near close right now. He's a 4th round pick right now. He's not even the best QB prospect in his conference. He needs to be prepared to sit for 2-3 years in the pros if he comes out or just grad transfer (Michigan) and play next year. He won't hurt his stock doing that at all but right now he's a few tiers below the top 4 QB's in this draft. If Harbaugh is still at Michigan then that's really the best move for him. People really like him because of his potential (?) and his tools but he's yet to put any of that together and at his level of play that's concerning as hell. He's a project. Not a Mahomes type of project either. He's the get you HC or GM fired project.

 

[Los216]

Goff has 15-20lbs on Lamar Jackson

Lol uhh no he doesn't.

Jackson doesn’t have any room in his frame to actually get bigger.

He put on 10 pounds just this year. This is before getting in an NFL program. By comparison Watson is 4 pounds heavier and the same height as Jackson right now. Jackson is also stronger and able to withstand more hits and is faster so yeah.

He can get away with his size as a WR, but not as a QB. I bet he is wiry strong, but how many QBs like him have ever made it in the NFL? He is smaller than even Vick was weight wise and three inches taller. For Frame, height doesn’t matter, I am referring to the width of your bones and the width of your hips. He has no width in either spot.

He's been able to absorb more hits without any issues. I know it's college but he's not getting smashed out there. He's broken more tackles than any QB that I can remember.

I am a person who advocated Wilson would be an NFL starter, I don’t give a crap about height or 40 speed, since in the NFL it’s your footwork and lateral quickness that matters in the QB position.

I mean... there isn't a QB who come out of the draft since Vick who's had the lateral quickness, elusiveness, and speed like Lamar Jackson. He's elite at all three. He's very good at moving around in the pocket. Also as far as his speed goes. I feel confident in saying that he has enough speed to avoid as much contact at the NFL level. The guy is literally the most physically gifted QB since Vick. If there's one guy who I think will have the speed and elusiveness to avoid the rush and avoid hits at the NFL level it's Lamar Jackson.

 

[sportscoach]

Jackson doesn’t have room to put on 10 lbs without starting to give up some speed and quickness. His talent is there so not get me wrong, but I very highly doubt he plays more than a few years before injuries set in. Have you actually looked how big his bones are? He won’t be able to take hit after hit in the NFL, since his body isn’t built to withstand that.

I mean I hope I am wrong for his sake, but I don’t trust him having a long career and that’s not someone I want in Cleveland. Rosen or Mayfield over Jackson in my mind.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I promised this today, so here it goes, the non-QB Mock Draft.

1-1: Minkah Fitzpatrick: He is Jalen Ramsey 2.0. While he doesn't seem to be quite as athletic as Ramsey, he does have the same positional flexibility. I think Fitz is a better ball hawk and I also believe that he is more of a safety than corner, whereas Ramsey is the inverse. I think Fitzpatrick is the missing piece that would allow the Browns to create a situation where they could play both Kindred and Peppers close to the LOS. It opens the entire defense and creates real playmaking options.

1-8: Denzel Ward: Ward is a really good player, reminds me more of Conley than Lattimore the more I watch him. He is a really good cover corner with good ability to tackle. He would look a lot like Joe Haden pre injury here, but a better athlete. I think he would probably be the best player available and he, along with Fitzpatrick, would finish the defense.

2-33: Christian Kirk: I think Kirk is the best true slot guy in this draft. He has incredible change of direction skills, and has pretty decent hands. I don't believe he would ever be the big threat to play outside, but with Coleman and Gordon, he would look really good as WR 3.

Texans pick: Bryce Love: I don't know if he lasts here, but he definitely is going to be in this area, 30's or 40's. Love has great agility and can run through tackles really well. I'm sure most here are familiar with him now, seeing as how he is a heisman hopeful. I think he fills a need a provides a real good value here.

Eagles pick: Deontay Burnett: I think he is sneaking into the 1st round at some point, but at this point he is probably a 2nd rounder. He lacks elite size or the ability to really make contested catches, but he has a knack for getting open and catches everything.

 

[Los216]

Jackson doesn’t have room to put on 10 lbs without starting to give up some speed and quickness. His talent is there so not get me wrong, but I very highly doubt he plays more than a few years before injuries set in. Have you actually looked how big his bones are? He won’t be able to take hit after hit in the NFL, since his body isn’t built to withstand that.

I mean I hope I am wrong for his sake, but I don’t trust him having a long career and that’s not someone I want in Cleveland. Rosen or Mayfield over Jackson in my mind.

Did you miss the part where I said he already put on 10 pounds? And why do you keep bringing up his bones? How are Josh Rosen's bones? He's been injured more than Jackson. I'd be more concerned about Rosen who's had multiple soft tissue injuries than Jackson who has yet to be injured in spite of being hit. You are also completely discrediting Jackson's speed and ability to avoid being hit.

I can't believe you asked if I looked at his bones lol. Jackson will be able to take more hits than Rosen. He'll also be able to avoid more hits. You don't want one guy because you think he might get injured but you have no problem taking the other guy who has major injury concerns?

 

[sportscoach]

Did you miss the part where I said he already put on 10 pounds? And why do you keep bringing up his bones? How are Josh Rosen's bones? He's been injured more than Jackson. I'd be more concerned about Rosen who's had multiple soft tissue injuries than Jackson who has yet to be injured in spite of being hit. You are also completely discrediting Jackson's speed and ability to avoid being hit.

I can't believe you asked if I looked at his bones lol. Jackson will be able to take more hits than Rosen. He'll also be able to avoid more hits. You don't want one guy because you think he might get injured but you have no problem taking the other guy who has major injury concerns?

Him putting on 10 lbs got him to 211 in weight. Look at any site, he won’t ever weigh more than 215 if that and at 6’3, that’s not a lot of weight at all. The dude is a skinny rail and there isn’t any denying that one!

And that’s one of my faults about Rosen is the fact he is often injuried. I feel like he will be a guy like a Bradford or a Luck who when 100% is a solid QB, but how often is that?

 

[Los216]

Him putting on 10 lbs got him to 211 in weight. Look at any site, he won’t ever weigh more than 215 if that and at 6’3, that’s not a lot of weight at all. The dude is a skinny rail and there isn’t any denying that one!

And that’s one of my faults about Rosen is the fact he is often injuried. I feel like he will be a guy like a Bradford or a Luck who when 100% is a solid QB, but how often is that?

Dude stop. At first you said he would never gain 10 pounds and I showed you he did and now you're saying he'll never way more than 215. It doesn't even sound like you're guessing it really sounds like you are hoping that you are right. For all the talk about him not being able to hold up he has held up longer than any of the other QB's in this draft. His "rail thin" frame has not been a problem for him at all. You are hoping that it will be in the NFL though so you can be right. Otherwise you wouldn't keep moving the goalpost regarding his size.

 

[sportscoach]

Dude stop. At first you said he would never gain 10 pounds and I showed you he did and now you're saying he'll never way more than 215. It doesn't even sound like you're guessing it really sounds like you are hoping that you are right. For all the talk about him not being able to hold up he has held up longer than any of the other QB's in this draft. His "rail thin" frame has not been a problem for him at all. You are hoping that it will be in the NFL though so you can be right. Otherwise you wouldn't keep moving the goalpost regarding his size.

No I said he wouldn’t be able to gain more weight than he currently has unless he plans on losing speed and whatnot. You said he would put on more weight at the combine/nfl training room and I responded he couldn’t unless he plans on losing speed and whatnot. Read what I wrote not what you think ya read. Also the guys in the NFL are bigger and faster than in college so eventually the issue will arise and I hope for the kids sake I am wrong since it would mean a short career for him.

Don’t get me wrong the talent is there, but he is physically smaller frame wise than anyone you mentioned. Guys like Taylor are shorter and actually have a slightly bigger frame than him and that can effect how well you take hits. Goff has at least ten lbs on him and likely will get a little more in due time since he can put a few pounds on without effecting his footwork and speed.

Okay to say it another way, his body is fully filled out. He cannot put on anymore weight and being 6’3 and 210lbs, that means he is likely the lightest QB in the NFL. He is lighter than Wilson, Brees and anyone else in the league that’s playing QB. How many bench reps and everything he puts up at the combine will be important since he has to show how strong that frame is cause it is slight for an NFL QB. His weight is the same as Manziel who was 3 inches shorter. He is small and that’s that.

 

[Los216]

No I said he wouldn’t be able to gain more weight than he currently has unless he plans on losing speed and whatnot. You said he would put on more weight at the combine/nfl training room and I responded he couldn’t unless he plans on losing speed and whatnot. Read what I wrote not what you think ya read. Also the guys in the NFL are bigger and faster than in college so eventually the issue will arise and I hope for the kids sake I am wrong since it would mean a short career for him.

Don’t get me wrong the talent is there, but he is physically smaller frame wise than anyone you mentioned. Guys like Taylor are shorter and actually have a slightly bigger frame than him and that can effect how well you take hits. Goff has at least ten lbs on him and likely will get a little more in due time since he can put a few pounds on without effecting his footwork and speed.

Okay to say it another way, his body is fully filled out. He cannot put on anymore weight and being 6’3 and 210lbs, that means he is likely the lightest QB in the NFL. He is lighter than Wilson, Brees and anyone else in the league that’s playing QB. How many bench reps and everything he puts up at the combine will be important since he has to show how strong that frame is cause it is slight for an NFL QB. His weight is the same as Manziel who was 3 inches shorter. He is small and that’s that.

WTF??????

Dude......

So let me get this straight. Jared Goff who is 223 lbs can put on a few pounds and it won't effect his footwork and speed but Lamar Jackson who is 215 lbs can't add anymore weight because it will make him slower?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


I can't even.....

 

[sportscoach]

WTF??????

Dude......

So let me get this straight. Jared Goff who is 223 lbs can put on a few pounds and it won't effect his footwork and speed but Lamar Jackson who is 215 lbs can't add anymore weight because it will make him slower?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


I can't even.....

Let me ask you something, would you want someone of AJ Greens size playing QB? You have seen him play plenty of times. Do you think he could play QB if he had an arm? This is a relevant question and I will explain why I asked if ya answer lol

 

[Los216]

Let me ask you something, would you want someone of AJ Greens size playing QB? You have seen him play plenty of times. Do you think he could play QB if he had an arm?

Tom Brady 6'4 225 40 years old
Aaron Rodgers 6'2 225 34 years old
Russell Wilson 5'11 215 29 years old
Drew Brees 6'0 209 38 years old

Lamar Jackson 6'3 215 21 years old

Stop it. Lamar Jackson is a different breed of athlete than those guys. He's already put on 10 pounds coming into this season. You are going out on a limb hoping he can't gain any more weight without losing speed and agility when he looks even better this year after gaining 10 pounds.


AJ Green? LOLOLOLOLOL

Has AJ Green's frame been a problem for him? No it hasn't. You are basing all of your claims that Lamar Jackson is too small on your opinion that I'm showing you is not as big of a deal as you think it is. He's not a stick figure. He's not weak. He'll be one of the fastest players in the NFL next year.

Let me ask you a question. Which player do you think would cause more problems for a defense Josh Rosen or Lamar Jackson? Do you think teams will fear Sam Darnold (lol) more than Lamar Jackson? Look at this year. Deshaun Watson was fuckin ballin out there. Teams could not handle him. He was done in by a non contact injury in practice much like Teddy Bridgewater. Now look at Mitch Trubisky. He's a bigger guy than Watson. Teams are not concerned about Trubisky at all. Period. He's the least effective starting QB in the NFL right now but his frame is good

Stop getting so hung up on his damn frame. Show me one instance where Watson, Wilson, Rodgers, or Brees were limited this year because of their frame? They aren't as thin as Lamar Jackson and guess what? They aren't in the same stratosphere as far as speed and agility goes either. He's an elite athlete and you are trying to discredit him over his frame that has never effected him to this point.

 

[sportscoach]

Scouts are going to look at his frame regardless like ones height. All those guys you mentioned are bigger frame wise than Jackson is. AJ Green build wise is just about the same as Jackson, when you look at weight speed, etc. it wouldn’t surprise me if his combine is about the same when it came to overall numbers.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/adriel-green?id=2495450

Jackson is a good QB and a good athlete, but his frame will make people think twice since durabllity will be in question when he gets hit by bigger and faster guys than he had in college. If you look at guys like Goff, they questioned his size as well. I mean heck Aaron Rodgers fell to 26 and look at what he became. It is not a set in stone thing, but scouts will say his frame could be an issue.

Jackson in theory should pose more issues, but tell me when a QB like Jackson has won anything or stayed in the league? I mean outside of Vick, QBs like him have never had a good track record. He has two things going against him into the draft, so how he does in areas like bench and his interviews will make or break him.

Also what type of system will he need to be in? Athletes can make plays, but I question the getting hit 20 times a day on his body. WRs don’t take those kind of hits constantly and even with more potections for the QB in this day and age, can he take that many hits?

One thing all those guys do that you listed is get rid of the ball and not take the sack. Jackson will have to be quick getting rid of the ball at the next level whether he is in the pocket or not. I don’t think his frame will hold out long term. This is my opinion and we completely differ on Jackson and Allen and we shall see in a few years from now who is right

 

[Triplethreat]

You just questioned Lamar Jacksons durability and frame while also comparing that frame to a wide receiver.....

Come on coach. Where are we going here.