2019 Around the MLB

[Juice is Loose]

Starts earlier than 8.

And most of those kids don’t like sitting through other baseball games.

Well with this lineup only getting 2 hits a game. They should be able to sit through 2 hours of baseball!

 

[BimboColesHair]

Having gone to games in the 70s and 80s prior to Steve O'Neiil, Jacobs and Dolan I find the criticism of Dolan as an owner to be overblown.

Attendance then was awful, but the team was awful for 30 years and the stadium was worse. The problem now is that this is a relatively bad baseball market compared to almost any other current baseball market - too small, and weak attendance despite success.

If Dolan put the Tribe up for sale there's no business case for paying a lot for it unless the team is moved.

I dont blame anyone. IMHO it's been a miracle the team had two windows in the past dozen years. The disparity in TV contracts alone is a killer.

I remember that in the late 90's the Indians had the best attendance and their merchandise sales were second, just behind the Yankees. But TV was $20MM a year compared to Yankees $100MM and it isn't any better now.

Dolan in the first couple years spent more than Jacobs, but it wasn't sustainable due to the cash bleed. Same problem now, only attendance is much weaker.

Hard to watch former Indians win rings in large & rich markets but the franchise is competing against a stacked deck.

I somewhat agree, but I also disagree with a bit.

The sale of the Indians would probably push close to a billion right now. It would probably more than triple the price the Dolan’s originally bought it for. Which is why him saying what he’s said about losing money has been so stupid to me. He has over a 200% ROI on the Indians right now, and that will only continue to increase. His woe is me stuff won’t garner any sympathy from fans, it will just make things worse.

And that is prior to the next thing I disagree on, the TV deal. The Indians will almost certainly sign a billon dollar plus TV deal in the next few years. I wouldn’t be surprised if they tripled their yearly grab (40 million to 120 million) on their next deal, especially if ratings stay where they are currently at, which they should with the team they have for the next couple of seasons.

And the fan support is definitely there. Not the best gauge, but it helps me gauge my own world, but the Indians are by far the most unanimously supported team on my social media outlets. The Indians, and the rest of baseball for that matter, just aren’t sticking with the times as far as advertising their players and getting interest drummed up to get people to come out to the games. They’re lightyears behind the NBA and NFL right now.

Your markets you’d expect to draw will draw strictly off population alone. But the ones you need creativity to get people to come to the park are lagging behind, and we’re one of those markets.

But yes. They are and will continue to play against a stacked deck, as far as money available to spend on MLB talent goes. But that’s also why I have a soft spot for Dolan. Him, and Shapiro when he was still with us, were so far ahead of the game on scouting stuff in the late 2000s and early 2010s that they managed to stack the deck in their favor without paying through the teeth for the cards.

This was something talked about by a few of us prior to them going to the World Series and going on their run they’re currently on like 7 years ago. And they’re still doing the same thing that has them in line to consistently compete even with roster turnover. Their scouting hires in the mid to late 2000s and promotions they’ve given to some of those same hires have them in a terrific spot as far as prospect gathering goes.

Pair that with International signings caps so big teams can’t hoard all the talent and you’re starting to see the Indians gather young talent better than they ever have before. There’s a reason they have the most young talent in their farm right now since the early 90s.

But yes, attendance isn’t a single issue topic. It’s a whole bunch of shit. But refusing to support a team because of ownership, not spending money on the team because of ownership, then complaining because they can’t re-sign their homegrown players is the definition of “you reap what you sow”.

 

[BMAN]

I already plan on going to more games than I ever have this season. Hoping to be a season ticket holder next year. Should have enough spending money after my kitchen remodel this year. I know 2 season tickets next year won’t make a dent but I suppose it’s a start.

 

[sportscoach]

I don’t think it helps a lot of people left northeastern Ohio over the years either hence why I almost feel the TV and radio ratings are so high, plus as a person who has a MLB.tv description, we do actually have a pretty good TV crew overall and they seem to enjoy what they are doing.

Now the biggest question, is there anyways to draw more fans back to the Stadium? I don’t like going to downtowns honestly so part of me wishes they didn’t build it there in some ways.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I don’t think it helps a lot of people left northeastern Ohio over the years either hence why I almost feel the TV and radio ratings are so high, plus as a person who has a MLB.tv description, we do actually have a pretty good TV crew overall and they seem to enjoy what they are doing.

Now the biggest question, is there anyways to draw more fans back to the Stadium? I don’t like going to downtowns honestly so part of me wishes they didn’t build it there in some ways.

Don’t agree with the “people leaving” reason.

Greater Cleveland area has lost all of ~50,000 people since 1990. That’s not making or breaking attendance or TV ratings numbers.

Northeast Ohio is still one of the most populated CSA’s in the country.

Problem is people moved away from Cleveland’s metro area to the surrounding area, and the Indians haven’t been able to find a way to get those people to come to Cleveland consistently for games like the Cavs and Browns have.

They left, but they didn’t leave far enough away to not come to games.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I've been a STH for a while, and after moving out to the suburbs last year, this is the last year for my season tickets. If you live downtown, there aren't any better situations than walking over to the ballpark for a game, and walking back home. It was one of the most enjoyable things about living downtown.

Living in the suburbs makes it more difficult. If you want to talk a weekday game, you have to rush home from work, drive out to the ballpark, find parking, watch the game, and then deal with traffic coming back home which leaves you out later than you would have expected for a work night. This isn't even factoring in kids and weather, which can make it way worse.

With the majority of the Indians audience living in the Cleveland suburbs, it's no wonder attendance struggles.

I've held the point that Indians attendance won't really grow until either the MLB changes significantly (Advertise your players? Change the CBA to make a more level economic playing field?) or until the urban population in Cleveland grows. Most young professionals that live downtown go to a bunch of games every year.

The Indians have some of the cheapest tickets anywhere. It's like 12 bucks to get into the ballpark. The food is amazing. The beer selection is amazing. The talent on the field is amazing. Fan experience, social media, everything within the organization's control is absolutely world class. But, our attendance still suffers.

Stop making excuses. Stop blaming ownership. It was stupid when Browns fans blamed Lerner. It's stupid when Indians fans blame Dolan. Just accept the fact that a lot of people view going to Indians games as more of a chore than a treat.

Also, I don't think the comparisons to other sports is fair. It's easier to spend a Sunday at one of eight Browns game than it is to spend a weekday night at one of 81 Tribe games. Basketball is probably the only one of the three main sports that's more enjoyable in person than it is on TV. Baseball, it's amazing being at the ballpark--but you can't see the details of the game the way you can from at home. I think that's something they should work on solving for as well.

 

[sportscoach]

Don’t agree with the “people leaving” reason.

Greater Cleveland area has lost all of 35,000 people since 1990. That’s not making or breaking attendance or TV ratings numbers.

Northeast Ohio is still one of the most populated CSA’s in the country.

Problem is people moved away from Cleveland’s metro area to the surrounding area, and the Indians haven’t been able to find a way to get those people to come to Cleveland consistently for games like the Cavs and Browns have.

They left, but they didn’t leave far enough away to not come to games.

I am not talking about Cleveland, but the entire Northeastern Ohio as well. I am from Canton, which lost a ton of jobs. During what the 2000s when companies really started going overseas, we lost 100,000+ jobs in the areas within in hour of Cleveland. My neighbor commuted to Cleveland everyday and my dad even though he worked in Akron bought the house in Canton as well when he got transferred to Akron ROTC. You are talking about just Cleveland, but I am talking about the Northeastern Ohio in general, which lost hundreds of thousands of people in general. Hoover, Timken, Republic, Diebold etc all moved a ton of jobs from the area. They were also apart of the market for Cleveland Indians and that really hurt them as well. They had these jobs in the area in the 90s, but no longer has it. That effected the market a lot and part of the reason why I said the market is smaller and we have very good TV ratings since that hour from Cleveland, they lost a lot of people in general, but they still watch the team.

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2009/02/ohio_has_lost_262383_jobs_5_of.html

This is about the best I could find in a quick look, but honestly most of the manufacturing in the state of Ohio was in the Northeast side. I know cause I saw it being from Canton which got hit pretty hard in general. Canton, Akron and cities near them are still apart of the market as well. Dont forget that our number of Reps in the House of Reps has gone down since the 90s as well, so our population did decrease a fair amount in general.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I am not talking about Cleveland, but the entire Northeastern Ohio as well. I am from Canton, which lost a ton of jobs. During what the 2000s when companies really started going overseas, we lost 100,000+ jobs in the areas within in hour of Cleveland. My neighbor commuted to Cleveland everyday and my dad even though he worked in Akron bought the house in Canton as well when he got transferred to Akron ROTC. You are talking about just Cleveland, but I am talking about the Northeastern Ohio in general, which lost hundreds of thousands of people in general. Hoover, Timken, Republic, Diebold etc all moved a ton of jobs from the area. They were also apart of the market for Cleveland Indians and that really hurt them as well. They had these jobs in the area in the 90s, but no longer has it. That effected the market a lot and part of the reason why I said the market is smaller and we have very good TV ratings since that hour from Cleveland, they lost a lot of people in general, but they still watch the team.

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2009/02/ohio_has_lost_262383_jobs_5_of.html

This is about the best I could find in a quick look, but honestly most of the manufacturing in the state of Ohio was in the Northeast side. I know cause I saw it being from Canton which got hit pretty hard in general. Canton, Akron and cities near them are still apart of the market as well. Dont forget that our number of Reps in the House of Reps has gone down since the 90s as well, so our population did decrease a fair amount in general.

As am I. Notice I mentioned Northeast Ohio is still one of the most populated CSAs in the country?

Contrary to popular opinion, while yes Cleveland is shrinking in size, the counties surrounding Cuyahoga County are growing, a few are growing exponentially too. Medina, Lake, Geauga, Portage, and Lorain counties are all consistently growing. Only county right outside of Cuyahoga County that isn’t growing is Summit, and it’s just kind of stagnated at half a million people.

Yes, people have left. But not enough people have left the greater Cleveland area and the counties that surround it for me to buy that that is a major reason attendance numbers are struggling.

It’s not. The people are there. They just won’t drive in to downtown for Indians games frequently because they’re moving into one of those counties next door.

 

[Urban]

Yankees dropped 2 of 3 to Baltimore, the worst team in baseball

Red Sox dropped 3 of 4 to Seattle, who traded or let most of their stars (but has a sneaky interesting lineup)

Astros dropped 3 of 4 to Tampa


So while the Indians lineup put together 3 excruciating games, it is good to see they aren't the only team hurting

 

[Ohio]

Yankees dropped 2 of 3 to Baltimore, the worst team in baseball

Red Sox dropped 3 of 4 to Seattle, who traded or let most of their stars (but has a sneaky interesting lineup)

Astros dropped 3 of 4 to Tampa


So while the Indians lineup put together 3 excruciating games, it is good to see they aren't the only team hurting

I know it's baseball and shit happens, but wow that is surprising to see all the AL contenders sucking in their opening series'

 

[BimboColesHair]

Yankees dropped 2 of 3 to Baltimore, the worst team in baseball

Red Sox dropped 3 of 4 to Seattle, who traded or let most of their stars (but has a sneaky interesting lineup)

Astros dropped 3 of 4 to Tampa


So while the Indians lineup put together 3 excruciating games, it is good to see they aren't the only team hurting

Red Sox pitching will be an interesting watch this year, especially their bullpen. Lost a lot of pieces.

 

[Marcus]

Xander Bogaerts is about to sign an extension for 7 years, $132 million.

 

[Steve_424]

Don’t agree with the “people leaving” reason.

Greater Cleveland area has lost all of ~50,000 people since 1990. That’s not making or breaking attendance or TV ratings numbers.

Northeast Ohio is still one of the most populated CSA’s in the country.

Problem is people moved away from Cleveland’s metro area to the surrounding area, and the Indians haven’t been able to find a way to get those people to come to Cleveland consistently for games like the Cavs and Browns have.

They left, but they didn’t leave far enough away to not come to games.

Cavs STH were locked in for 18-19 before LeBron left for LA - I'll be curious to see what attendance is next year, especially if they don't land Zion or Morant.

The Browns have to sell tickets to eight games, mostly on Sunday. That's a tough comparison to make to a team selling tickets for 81 games, with many through the week.

 

[Stark]

Not enough Christian Yelich discussion in here.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Cavs STH were locked in for 18-19 before LeBron left for LA - I'll be curious to see what attendance is next year, especially if they don't land Zion or Morant.

The Browns have to sell tickets to eight games, mostly on Sunday. That's a tough comparison to make to a team selling tickets for 81 games, with many through the week.

I don’t disagree.

I’m mostly talking about the marketing and social media presence that each league has. NFL and NBA > MLB. Shit, I actually think NCAA football recruiting utilizes social media as a means to promote oneself better than the MLB does, and that’s the biggest marketing platform out there now.

That’s part of the reason the NFL and NBA draw more eyes than the MLB. Not the main reason, but a part.