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2019 Browns Off Season/Roster Discussion

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King Stannis said:
RB seems low considering they have the best RB stable in the NFL.

Perhaps they didn't get the memo that Ingram left.
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I mean, it's pretty obvious that the ratings heavily skew towards the top end talent. It matches our philosophy of not paying for depth. We don't have a top-end elite RB like the other teams. I'd say the ranking's pretty in-line. Heck, saying that Chubb/Hunt is equal to Melvin Gordon, Leonard Fournette and Le'Veon Bell is pretty good territory to be in. Only qualms about the RB evaluation is that they're overrating McCaffrey and severely underrating David Johnson.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
I mean, it's pretty obvious that the ratings heavily skew towards the top end talent. It matches our philosophy of not paying for depth. We don't have a top-end elite RB like the other teams. I'd say the ranking's pretty in-line. Heck, saying that Chubb/Hunt is equal to Melvin Gordon, Leonard Fournette and Le'Veon Bell is pretty good territory to be in. Only qualms about the RB evaluation is that they're overrating McCaffrey and severely underrating David Johnson.
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CMac might be the best overall RB in the game, they aren't underrating him.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
Cmon man. I really like Chubb, but you can't say he's in the same class as Saquon, Zeke, Gurley, Kamara. There's a difference there, and it has to be reflected in these rankings.
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Arthritic Gurley.

There is really Zeke and then everyone else in terms of that style.

But Chubb can get into that next tier this season.
 
FiveThous said:
https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/28/nick-chubb-is-pffs-highest-graded-rb-in-2018/
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I've seen people post that about 30 times in defense of considering Nick Chubb an elite RB.

I just think it shows that, while PFF is a really cool tool, it's certainly not infallible. Any eye test will tell you that Chubb doesn't have any elite skills the way the other guys at the top of the RB position do.

Again, it's not a slight on Chubb. If I have to give him a grade, he's a B+. He's really good. But, he doesn't have the elite talents those other guys have.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
Cmon man. I really like Chubb, but you can't say he's in the same class as Saquon, Zeke, Gurley, Kamara. There's a difference there, and it has to be reflected in these rankings.
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I really don't think there is much of a difference between Chubb and any of those guys. Chubb was one of the most efficient backs in the league this year. Main thing is he didn't start half the season and was only getting a few carries a game early on because our coaches were fucking dumb.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
Cmon man. I really like Chubb, but you can't say he's in the same class as Saquon, Zeke, Gurley, Kamara. There's a difference there, and it has to be reflected in these rankings.
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I think Kamora is great for what he does, but he is so different than Chubb I cant see comparing the too. Kamora is more a better version of Duke.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
I've seen people post that about 30 times in defense of considering Nick Chubb an elite RB.

I just think it shows that, while PFF is a really cool tool, it's certainly not infallible. Any eye test will tell you that Chubb doesn't have any elite skills the way the other guys at the top of the RB position do.

Again, it's not a slight on Chubb. If I have to give him a grade, he's a B+. He's really good. But, he doesn't have the elite talents those other guys have.
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Chubb averaged 5.2 YPC on almost 200 carries.

That is elite.
 
Jack Brickman said:
Chubb averaged 5.2 YPC on almost 200 carries.

That is elite.
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YPC has extremely small correlation to a RB's level of talent. The correlation is much stronger to the offense that RB is in.

See: Todd Gurley, Melvin Gordon. Did they all of a sudden suck and then become one of the best backs in the league because their YPC was different?

See: Damien Williams. Was he bad in Miami with a career 3.5 YPC, then amazing in KC with a 5.1 YPC average? No--he's still the exact same guy. His situation just changed.
 
Lee said:
I think Kamora is great for what he does, but he is so different than Chubb I cant see comparing the too. Kamora is more a better version of Duke.
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His acceleration is his elite trait. No other RB in the league does what he does. If you're making a category of the elite guys, he belongs there.

Saquon is probably already the best RB in the game.

David Johnson is the best receiving back in the league, and also an amazing runner--last year be damned in that atrocious Arizona offense, he's special.

Kamara has unreal acceleration and amazing receiving ability.

Zeke is probably the best RB in the league at running between the tackles. The guy always seems to make at least one guy miss or break that tackle, and always seems to make positive yardage.

Gurley, if he returns to form, is probably the second most gifted back in the league behind Kamara. The guy's a specimen. But, he's a guy I can see falling out of this group.

Le'Veon Bell could return to this group with his elite vision and patience.
 
UDcleveland said:
Yes it does... maybe not the only measure to consider, but to say there’s an extremely small correlation is laughable IMO, unless it’s a very small sample, which 200 carries is not
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You're right. That's why Thomas Rawls, Ryan Mathews, Doug Martin, Charles Sims, CJ Anderson and Giovani Bernard are lighting the league up (They were all in the top 10 YPC in 2015). Rawls was the leader at 5.6

But damn, that year must be cherry-picked. Let's go to 2016.

Mike Gillislee led at 5.7, Bilal Powell next at 5.5... Jordan Howard, Jay Ajayi, Isaiah Crowell all in the top 10.

2017 must give you a better chance at saving face after your horrible take! Well, Kenyan Drake, Alfred Morris, Alex Collins, Giovani Bernard, LeGerrette Blount, Matt Breida were all inside the top 10. But hey, at least this year the leader had actual talent (Kamara).

Shit. Maybe go backwards in time? 2014?

Your leader was Justin Forsett at 5.4, followed by Jeremy Hill and Lamar Miller.

Using YPC to evaluate a RB is like using RBI to evaluate a hitter in baseball. It's archaic and pretty awful.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
You're right. That's why Thomas Rawls, Ryan Mathews, Doug Martin, Charles Sims, CJ Anderson and Giovani Bernard are lighting the league up (They were all in the top 10 YPC in 2015). Rawls was the leader at 5.6

But damn, that year must be cherry-picked. Let's go to 2016.

Mike Gillislee led at 5.7, Bilal Powell next at 5.5... Jordan Howard, Jay Ajayi, Isaiah Crowell all in the top 10.

2017 must give you a better chance at saving face after your horrible take! Well, Kenyan Drake, Alfred Morris, Alex Collins, Giovani Bernard, LeGerrette Blount, Matt Breida were all inside the top 10. But hey, at least this year the leader had actual talent (Kamara).

Shit. Maybe go backwards in time? 2014?

Your leader was Justin Forsett at 5.4, followed by Jeremy Hill and Lamar Miller.

Using YPC to evaluate a RB is like using RBI to evaluate a hitter in baseball. It's archaic and pretty awful.
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Man, awesome research. Try to be more of a dick next time though.
 
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