2019 NBA Draft

[Nathan S]

Tough way to go out for Williams, but it was yet another game in which he made a series of big plays down the stretch. Clearly a polarizing prospect...it'll be very interesting to see where he's drafted.

 

[2 For The Brew]

That's why I've always hated the celtics.

My memory is terrible. Was that the unseld, gus Johnson, pearl team? Earl was like my favorite player back in the day. Him and Dave Bing. Lol

Earl the Pearl was on the Knicks for the 72-73 championship. The Bullets of 75-76 were Unseld, Hayes, Bing, Chenier, Truck Robinson, Nick Weatherspoon, Clem Haskins.

 

[BigErieCavsFan]

Earl the Pearl was on the Knicks for the 72-73 championship. The Bullets of 75-76 were Unseld, Hayes, Bing, Chenier, Truck Robinson, Nick Weatherspoon, Clem Haskins.

I told you memory is terrible. Lol

 

[Nathan S]

Huuuuge 10 minutes coming up here for Hunter. This game could be a big notch in his belt or a disastrous end to his season depending on whether or not he steps up.

EDIT: Virginia pulled it out, but still a pretty disastrous outing for Hunter. Looked absolutely ordinary. Still think he's more likely than not to go top-10, but games like that will make GMs queasy.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Huuuuge 10 minutes coming up here for Hunter. This game could be a big notch in his belt or a disastrous end to his season depending on whether or not he steps up.

EDIT: Virginia pulled it out, but still a pretty disastrous outing for Hunter. Looked absolutely ordinary. Still think he's more likely than not to go top-10, but games like that will make GMs queasy.

I sort of felt that way watching Culver too. He’s fine...but the fact that he is being considered as the 4th selection in a draft makes you pretty uninspired about this lottery.

He’s not a bad player at all but he’s just so average athletically, while in motion, for what you would want in an NBA SG / SF. There were a handful of plays in that Michigan game where he attempted to channel his athleticism and his body was just incapable of doing it. I can’t figure out if it is because he is still possibly growing and it’s been tougher for him to keep up physically or if he’s just really a below average player verticality wise....and that’s just something he’ll have to try to always mitigate with other skills.

I’d have less concern if he were shooting the ball better but he does just remind me of what I would envision a little more confident, similar shooting Reddish would be on his own team. He’d put up stats and use his length to score.....but he’d sprinkle in the sloppy dribbling, random turnovers and still show the signs of struggling to find athleticism in traffic or against defensive pressure.

Culver consistently looks good on defense but he is just a really uninspiring offensive player. I still don’t have a great handle on what he does offensively that translates to the NBA level.....at least with Hunter, you get the possibility of high level shooting.

I’m not even sure who I would rather have at this point.....if I have to pick, I’m probably going with Hunter, betting that (1) even his worst NBA shooting case is better than Culver’s average to good one and (2) that there’s a decent probability Virginia’s system is suppressing some untapped offensive potential.....but neither are real exciting to me. I think they will both stick in the NBA but I would be shocked if either were significantly impactful players.

I’m probably happy with either in the 7-10 range but if you’re in the top 5 of a draft and exiting with either of those guys, it is pretty underwhelming to me. I just don’t see enough things from either that get you excited about NBA ceiling outcomes.

 

[Nathan S]

I sort of felt that way watching Culver too. He’s fine...but the fact that he is being considered as the 4th selection in a draft makes you pretty uninspired about this lottery.

He’s not a bad player at all but he’s just so average athletically, while in motion, for what you would want in an NBA SG / SF. There were a handful of plays in that Michigan game where he attempted to channel his athleticism and his body was just incapable of doing it. I can’t figure out if it is because he is still possibly growing and it’s been tougher for him to keep up physically or if he’s just really a below average player verticality wise....and that’s just something he’ll have to try to always mitigate with other skills.

I’d have less concern if he were shooting the ball better but he does just remind me of what I would envision a little more confident, similar shooting Reddish would be on his own team. He’d put up stats and use his length to score.....but he’d sprinkle in the sloppy dribbling, random turnovers and still show the signs of struggling to find athleticism in traffic or against defensive pressure.

Culver consistently looks good on defense but he is just a really uninspiring offensive player. I still don’t have a great handle on what he does offensively that translates to the NBA level.....at least with Hunter, you get the possibility of high level shooting.

I’m not even sure who I would rather have at this point.....if I have to pick, I’m probably going with Hunter, betting that (1) even his worst NBA shooting case is better than Culver’s average to good one and (2) that there’s a decent probability Virginia’s system is suppressing some untapped offensive potential.....but neither are real exciting to me. I think they will both stick in the NBA but I would be shocked if either were significantly impactful players.

I’m probably happy with either in the 7-10 range but if you’re in the top 5 of a draft and exiting with either of those guys, it is pretty underwhelming to me. I just don’t see enough things from either that get you excited about NBA ceiling outcomes.

I don't even like Culver that much...I mean, I'm trying to talk myself into last night being a good game for him even as his 3-point percentage drips below 32%. But vs. Hunter? It's a no brainer. Culver's more than a year younger than him, and the skill you're hoping Culver develops is so much easier to develop than the skill you're hoping Hunter develops. Easy pick if you're drafting for upside, which you should be.

 

[I'mWithDan]

I don't even like Culver that much...I mean, I'm trying to talk myself into last night being a good game for him even as his 3-point percentage drips below 32%. But vs. Hunter? It's a no brainer. Culver's more than a year younger than him, and the skill you're hoping Culver develops is so much easier to develop than the skill you're hoping Hunter develops. Easy pick if you're drafting for upside, which you should be.

That's fair......I'm still more torn on them.

I concede drafting for upside you take Culver, I just really have doubts that his player type attains his offensive ceiling very often.

And if you are of the position that they are most likely to net out as similar NBA player types (on ball defensive potential, with off ball offensive potential), I'd rather forgo a bit of ceiling in favor of a far better shooting profile.....even at the expense off youth.

 

[Nathan S]

That's fair......I'm still more torn on them.

I concede drafting for upside you take Culver, I just really have doubts that his player type attains his offensive ceiling very often.

And if you are of the position that they are most likely to net out as similar NBA player types (on ball defensive potential, with off ball offensive potential), I'd rather forgo a bit of ceiling in favor of a far better shooting profile.....even at the expense off youth.

It's not just "a bit of ceiling" though. Hunter's offensive ceiling is *really* low, IMO. There's simply no way he's going to be a great 1-on-1 scorer at the NBA level. There's simply no chance he's going to develop into a point forward. At the absolute best he'll be a highly efficient 3rd option. While some of Culver's all-around skills are less polished, he already has far more ability than Hunter creating offense for himself and for his teammates. If, hypothetically, Culver returned for another year (at which point he'd still be younger than Hunter is now), he'd be the runaway favorite to win the Wooden Award. He's flat-out a higher caliber prospect.

 

[Ozone]

I take King over Hunter at this point. King is by all accounts a higher ceiling player and is being slept on by anyone who says nay to this viewpoint imo.
I think when it's said and done the Cavs are drafting RJ Barrett at 3. Should they fall some others like King,Porter and Bol become more reasonable options than Hunter or Reddish

 

[Nathan S]

I take King over Hunter at this point. King is by all accounts a higher ceiling player and is being slept on by anyone who says nay to this viewpoint imo.
I think when it's said and done the Cavs are drafting RJ Barrett at 3. Should they fall some others like King,Porter and Bol become more reasonable options than Hunter or Reddish

King is sort of in the same bucket as Brazdeikis to me. Yeah, he's an impressive scorer for a freshman wing. He's a key player on a good team. But there's not a whole lot of substance to his game beyond his scoring, and I don't trust him to create his own offense against better athletes at the next level. I wouldn't hate him with the Rockets pick, but I would certainly hate to draft him in the mid-high lottery.

 

[2 For The Brew]

I told you memory is terrible. Lol

Be grateful if you don't remember how truly terrible the Indians were in the 70s.

 

[I'mWithDan]

It's not just "a bit of ceiling" though. Hunter's offensive ceiling is *really* low, IMO. There's simply no way he's going to be a great 1-on-1 scorer at the NBA level. There's simply no chance he's going to develop into a point forward. At the absolute best he'll be a highly efficient 3rd option. While some of Culver's all-around skills are less polished, he already has far more ability than Hunter creating offense for himself and for his teammates. If, hypothetically, Culver returned for another year (at which point he'd still be younger than Hunter is now), he'd be the runaway favorite to win the Wooden Award. He's flat-out a higher caliber prospect.

What 1-on-1 NBA scoring ability has Culver demonstrated? Do I just irrationally dislike him?

From what I have seen the back half of the season and the film of both, I honestly think Hunter is a more efficient and versatile scorer. He has underrated slashing ability, even if it is more straight line....... His shooting ability allows him to force defenders to run him off spots. Nice P&R feel, elbow jumpers and high post moves....solid passer.

He doesn't take anywhere near the number of unassisted 3's Culver does but he is very comfortable attacking off 2 dribbles and pulling up (only 1/3rd of his 2PT jump shots are assisted)...he attacks the rim at a nice percentage and he is a damn near great shooter at all levels.

They both shoot roughly the same splits:

Hunter

3PT FGA - 26.7%
2PT Jumpers - 37.5%
At Rim - 35.8%

Culver

3PT FGA - 29%
Mid Range - 30.5%
At Rim - 40.5%

I think most people would be surprised to see those splits.....and that they shoot an identical % at the rim according to HM).....In addition to FG% at the rim, they are, again, in the same ballpark on assisted attempts at that level too (24.6% to 30.6%).

I honestly think Hunter is a little less creative but has a more fluid handle than Culver, especially in traffic......he is just asked to constantly play within a methodical offensive system in a way Culver is not. Hunter is asked to pick his spots more, given the skillset and quality of team he has around him......and because of Jerome especially, he is just not given as many play type opportunities.....but there's plenty of video out there of Hunter exhibiting quality pull up and mid range 1-on-1 shooting.

Hunter is also a great shooter from all levels and court area:

NBA 3PT: 56.76%
Long Mid: 45.59%
Short Mid: 44.74%
Rim: 67%.
Right Wing: 46.67%
Above Break: 52.38%
Left Wing: 37.50%

I think Hunter is just a guy people have spent a year trying to find things to nitpick him on.

 

[Nathan S]

What 1-on-1 NBA scoring ability has Culver demonstrated? Do I just irrationally dislike him?

From what I have seen the back half of the season and the film of both, I honestly think Hunter is a more efficient and versatile scorer. He has underrated slashing ability, even if it is more straight line....... His shooting ability allows him to force defenders to run him off spots. Nice P&R feel, elbow jumpers and high post moves....solid passer.

He doesn't take anywhere near the number of unassisted 3's Culver does but he is very comfortable attacking off 2 dribbles and pulling up (only 1/3rd of his 2PT jump shots are assisted)...he attacks the rim at a nice percentage and he is a damn near great shooter at all levels.

They both shoot roughly the same splits:

Hunter

3PT FGA - 26.7%
2PT Jumpers - 37.5%
At Rim - 35.8%

Culver

3PT FGA - 29%
Mid Range - 30.5%
At Rim - 40.5%

I think most people would be surprised to see those splits.....and that they shoot an identical % at the rim according to HM).....In addition to FG% at the rim, they are, again, in the same ballpark on assisted attempts at that level too (24.6% to 30.6%).

I honestly think Hunter is a little less creative but has a more fluid handle than Culver, especially in traffic......he is just asked to constantly play within a methodical offensive system in a way Culver is not. Hunter is asked to pick his spots more, given the skillset and quality of team he has around him......and because of Jerome especially, he is just not given as many play type opportunities.....but there's plenty of video out there of Hunter exhibiting quality pull up and mid range 1-on-1 shooting.

Hunter is also a great shooter from all levels and court area:

NBA 3PT: 56.76%
Long Mid: 45.59%
Short Mid: 44.74%
Rim: 67%.
Right Wing: 46.67%
Above Break: 52.38%
Left Wing: 37.50%

I think Hunter is just a guy people have spent a year trying to find things to nitpick him on.

I want to emphasize that I'm actually a bit lower than consensus on Culver. I'd take him top-10, but don't think i'd take him #4 based on what I know right now. But I think it's important that he has much deeper range off the dribble than Hunter, and much more demonstrated point forward ability than Hunter. Those are two huge datapoints for me if I'm looking at a wing prospect and thinking about his potential to be an elite offensive player at the next level. Sort of similar situation to Talen Horton-Tucker, who's much younger but has the same basic framework of skills that you typically see in elite wings at a young age. These are guys who don't have to change how they play to be stars at the next level...they just need to get better (admittedly, maybe a lot better) at doing the same things they already do.

 

[Cavatt]

I want to emphasize that I'm actually a bit lower than consensus on Culver. I'd take him top-10, but don't think i'd take him #4 based on what I know right now. But I think it's important that he has much deeper range off the dribble than Hunter, and much more demonstrated point forward ability than Hunter. Those are two huge datapoints for me if I'm looking at a wing prospect and thinking about his potential to be an elite offensive player at the next level. Sort of similar situation to Talen Horton-Tucker, who's much younger but has the same basic framework of skills that you typically see in elite wings at a young age. These are guys who don't have to change how they play to be stars at the next level...they just need to get better (admittedly, maybe a lot better) at doing the same things they already do.

Does it matter what size Culver is? If he is legit 6'8" does that matter to you? The 6 assists at 6'8" make s big difference to me. I think he fits the roster well. I do think he might be better than RJ

 

[Goldin Brown]

The comp I heard on Culver was Khris Middleton, I haven't really watched him, but is that pretty close to the type of player he can become?