2020 Off-Season Rumors/News

[MadThinker88]

I did not see this move coming....

via Indians Prospective twitter...
Indians Prospective

@indiansPro
· 10h
The Baltimore #Orioles have hired Tony Mansolino to be their 3B coach for the 2021 season. Mansolino replaced Mike Sarbaugh as the interim 3B coach for the #Indians in 2020 when Sandy Alomar took over as manager. He had been the organizations MiLB defensive coordinator prior.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The more the subject of trades are mulled over & over w/r to the pending Free Agency of Lindor/make up of the club.. the lack of impact position player prospects... and the statements made by CLEFO.. the more we can conclude the Indians:

-will trade Francisco Lindor... to Cincinnati or the NYY's.. The preference is to the Reds..
-will trade Jose Ramirez... to Toronto or Atlanta.. the preference is the Braves..
-will trade Zach Plesac... to the Cardinals or LAAngels.. the preference is the Cardinals
-will not trade Carlos Carrasco..
-will sign one mid-tier FA... like Cesar Hernandez..

The general return will be one corner infielder, two middle infielders, three outfielders, one catcher and two to four pitchers. The three names listed.. may not be the only ones leaving.

w/r to the returns.. filling in the names with the preferences listed could include but are not limited to.. Senzel, Garcia, Greene, Waters, Muller, Langeliers, De La Cruz, Reyes, Edmon, DeJong, Gorman, and Herrera.

Thoughts?...

Why would they trade Plesac?

Why would they not trade Carrasco and pay him $38 million over the next three years? If they don't trade him by March they could be stuck with him because he could decline any trade if I understand correctly. Would they actually risk getting stuck with a declining pitcher in his mid-30's making more than he's worth, or more than they can afford, or both?

Last question - over the past several years the organization's philosophy has been to trade expiring contracts for prospects while continuing to stay competitive and churn out 90-win seasons. They've indicated that's what they intend to do next year. Why would they trade Ramirez if that's their approach?

 

[Gson]

Why would they trade Plesac?

Why would they not trade Carrasco and pay him $38 million over the next three years? If they don't trade him by March they could be stuck with him because he could decline any trade if I understand correctly. Would they actually risk getting stuck with a declining pitcher in his mid-30's making more than he's worth, or more than they can afford, or both?

Last question - over the past several years the organization's philosophy has been to trade expiring contracts for prospects while continuing to stay competitive and churn out 90-win seasons. They've indicated that's what they intend to do next year. Why would they trade Ramirez if that's their approach?

Trading Carrasco after making the statement last year that he'd be an Indian forever.. never going to trade him.. yada yada.. makes any type of promise ring hollow.. By keeping him.. the Indians have cost certainty and a contract in their favor.. they have a DAMN good SP who has a consistent track record.. and Cookie remains a fan favorite..

Trading Plesac is counter to everything the Indians "usually" do.. he's inexpensive and under team control for the next five years.. he's who the Indians SHOULD KEEP.. but, he's also the key to acquiring the kind of upper tier blue chip position player talent the Indians desperately need.. He also has the weakest track record of ALL the starters for the Indians not names McKenzie.. Expect inconsistence from Plesac.. but, while he's wearing another team's uniform.

Ramirez is an exact fit for the Braves and Jays from filling a specific position as well as his very team friendly contract... Both of these teams can return the kind of multiple prospects of upper level talent the Tribe needs for the short term, perhaps as early as 2021.. but certainly for 2022... With this pitching staff, even excluding Plesac.. the Indians are relevant with or without Jose Ramirez or Francisco Lindor (knowing full well that the depth of the Indians pitching is as good as it may be ever in the Indians history).. With the returns from these three guys, the Indians are more than "just" relevant in 2022 and onward.

-Example of a return from the Toronto Blue Jays: Gurriel and Groshans plus for JRam...
-Example of a return from the Atlanta Braves: Drew Waters, Shea Langeliers, and Braden Shewmake for JRam.

These guys, especially the Jays, would replace the offensive output of JRam, or, at least 90 % of it.. and.. the Indians get a $ 25 - $ 30 MM reduction in payroll at a time when they are in need of a break..

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

Trading Carrasco after making the statement last year that he'd be an Indian forever.. never going to trade him.. yada yada.. makes any type of promise ring hollow.. By keeping him.. the Indians have cost certainty and a contract in their favor.. they have a DAMN good SP who has a consistent track record.. and Cookie remains a fan favorite..

Trading Plesac is counter to everything the Indians "usually" do.. he's inexpensive and under team control for the next five years.. he's who the Indians SHOULD KEEP.. but, he's also the key to acquiring the kind of upper tier blue chip position player talent the Indians desperately need.. He also has the weakest track record of ALL the starters for the Indians not names McKenzie.. Expect inconsistence from Plesac.. but, while he's wearing another team's uniform.

Ramirez is an exact fit for the Braves and Jays from filling a specific position as well as his very team friendly contract... Both of these teams can return the kind of multiple prospects of upper level talent the Tribe needs for the short term, perhaps as early as 2021.. but certainly for 2022... With this pitching staff, even excluding Plesac.. the Indians are relevant with or without Jose Ramirez or Francisco Lindor (knowing full well that the depth of the Indians pitching is as good as it may be ever in the Indians history).. With the returns from these three guys, the Indians are more than "just" relevant in 2022 and onward.

-Example of a return from the Toronto Blue Jays: Gurriel and Groshans plus for JRam...
-Example of a return from the Atlanta Braves: Drew Waters, Shea Langeliers, and Braden Shewmake for JRam.

These guys, especially the Jays, would replace the offensive output of JRam, or, at least 90 % of it.. and.. the Indians get a $ 25 - $ 30 MM reduction in payroll at a time when they are in need of a break..

I do not remember this ever being stated, is there a link? I know Carasco wants to be an Indians for life, but I do not ever remember the FO ever stating he will be an Indian for life.

 

[sportscoach]

I do not remember this ever being stated, is there a link? I know Carasco wants to be an Indians for life, but I do not ever remember the FO ever stating he will be an Indian for life.

It was more of the Antonetti saying, "We love Carrasco and would love to keep him here in Cleveland", but then Carrasco kind of stated he would like to retire here especially since he signed that second extension. PR wise we need to keep Carrasco, and with his 10/5 coming up, we either trade him now or we cannot. Indians aren't going to trade him unless its a great haul back.

Edit: Personally I feel they will not trade Carrasco without his approval to begin with because of the second extension. Hence why I said Tampa is the perfect trade partner since he lives in Tampa and they have a great farm system. I dont think he will be traded

 

[CDAV45]

They grabbed Hosmer because they wanted to win now... Naylor wasn't even 22 when they signed him if I remember correctly. He was only 23 last season, so its not like he is even in his prime yet...

I want to improve the lineup as well, but we only have so many options, someone will have to step up from who we have and the team actually cannot go backwards if they tried.

They grabbed Hosmer because he was a much better 1B and had a history of solid offensive production and GG defense. He made them better and they wanted to win.

I have no problem with Josh being in the lineup. I think the kid is/will be a good hitter even if he did get rushed a bit. I do not like short first basemen and he may very well be the shortest in the league if he plays there. It makes a difference many times over the course of a season.

 

[CDAV45]

Trading Carrasco after making the statement last year that he'd be an Indian forever.. never going to trade him.. yada yada.. makes any type of promise ring hollow.. By keeping him.. the Indians have cost certainty and a contract in their favor.. they have a DAMN good SP who has a consistent track record.. and Cookie remains a fan favorite..

Trading Plesac is counter to everything the Indians "usually" do.. he's inexpensive and under team control for the next five years.. he's who the Indians SHOULD KEEP.. but, he's also the key to acquiring the kind of upper tier blue chip position player talent the Indians desperately need.. He also has the weakest track record of ALL the starters for the Indians not names McKenzie.. Expect inconsistence from Plesac.. but, while he's wearing another team's uniform.

Ramirez is an exact fit for the Braves and Jays from filling a specific position as well as his very team friendly contract... Both of these teams can return the kind of multiple prospects of upper level talent the Tribe needs for the short term, perhaps as early as 2021.. but certainly for 2022... With this pitching staff, even excluding Plesac.. the Indians are relevant with or without Jose Ramirez or Francisco Lindor (knowing full well that the depth of the Indians pitching is as good as it may be ever in the Indians history).. With the returns from these three guys, the Indians are more than "just" relevant in 2022 and onward.

-Example of a return from the Toronto Blue Jays: Gurriel and Groshans plus for JRam...
-Example of a return from the Atlanta Braves: Drew Waters, Shea Langeliers, and Braden Shewmake for JRam.

These guys, especially the Jays, would replace the offensive output of JRam, or, at least 90 % of it.. and.. the Indians get a $ 25 - $ 30 MM reduction in payroll at a time when they are in need of a break..

Gson, I usually find myself in agreement with you, but this is a little off the wall. Plesac is going nowhere unless a team gets stupid and if you’re going to have confidence in any young player Plesac should be one of those guys.

If Carrasco’s preeminent declaration could have been solidified by a no trade agreement, but it wasn’t. That tells you everything you need to know. He’s available and being shopped, but they’re not looking to dump him.

The Dodgers would become very aggressive should Ramirez become available. I do like the idea that Atlanta can give us Riley and Camargo along with good C and SP prospects. Toronto needs Lindor or Carrasco and my guess is that Carrasco is who they prefer.

 

[DCTribefan]

The more the subject of trades are mulled over & over w/r to the pending Free Agency of Lindor/make up of the club.. the lack of impact position player prospects... and the statements made by CLEFO.. the more we can conclude the Indians:

-will trade Francisco Lindor... to Cincinnati or the NYY's.. The preference is to the Reds..
-will trade Jose Ramirez... to Toronto or Atlanta.. the preference is the Braves..
-will trade Zach Plesac... to the Cardinals or LAAngels.. the preference is the Cardinals
-will not trade Carlos Carrasco..
-will sign one mid-tier FA... like Cesar Hernandez..

The general return will be one corner infielder, two middle infielders, three outfielders, one catcher and two to four pitchers. The three names listed.. may not be the only ones leaving.

w/r to the returns.. filling in the names with the preferences listed could include but are not limited to.. Senzel, Garcia, Greene, Waters, Muller, Langeliers, De La Cruz, Reyes, Edmon, DeJong, Gorman, and Herrera.

Thoughts?...

You can conclude but few will agree that Plesac will be traded (instead of Carrasco).

 

[Gson]

You can conclude but few will agree that Plesac will be traded (instead of Carrasco).

pointless comment..

 

[CDAV45]

pointless comment..

They’re looking to reduce payroll and stay competitive. Trading Plesac and keeping Carrasco is the antithesis of that.

 

[Gson]

Gson, I usually find myself in agreement with you, but this is a little off the wall. Plesac is going nowhere unless a team gets stupid and if you’re going to have confidence in any young player Plesac should be one of those guys.

If Carrasco’s preeminent declaration could have been solidified by a no trade agreement, but it wasn’t. That tells you everything you need to know. He’s available and being shopped, but they’re not looking to dump him.

The Dodgers would become very aggressive should Ramirez become available. I do like the idea that Atlanta can give us Riley and Camargo along with good C and SP prospects. Toronto needs Lindor or Carrasco and my guess is that Carrasco is who they prefer.

there wasn't a no trade agreement.. there is just a sense about the CLEFO wanting to do all they can to assure Carrasco remains and retires as a Cleveland Indian..nothing more to it than that..

I have confidence that Plesac had an uncommonly good 2020.. no more than that... I believe the best interest of the Cleveland Indians would be served by exploiting that uncommonly good 2020 by trading Plesac and turning this value into the two and possibly three players that will be contributing as early as 2021.. but, realistically, 2022 and beyond..

Agree.. the Dodgers would aggressive if they have a chance to acquire JRam..

As far as the return from Atlanta.. Waters.. Langeliers and one of the two guys you mentioned would be a fine return.. maybe one more guy..

Thanks for responding with some substance..

 

[Gson]

They’re looking to reduce payroll and stay competitive. Trading Plesac and keeping Carrasco is the antithesis of that.

When it comes to Carrasco's salary.. it's a sunk cost.. the competitiveness of having Cookie versus NOT having Cookie.. we'll agree to disagree..

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

When it comes to Carrasco's salary.. it's a sunk cost.. the competitiveness of having Cookie versus NOT having Cookie.. we'll agree to disagree..

Sunk cost: money that has already been spent and which cannot be recovered.

Yeah, you can get out of his contract easily, not a sunk cost at all.

 

[Gson]

Sunk cost: money that has already been spent and which cannot be recovered.

Yeah, you can get out of his contract easily, not a sunk cost at all.

not spent.. allocated or dedicated...

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

not spent.. allocated or dedicated...

Not my fault you used the term 'sunk costs' incorrectly..... Feel free to google what sunk costs are..... They are already incurred and not recoverable..... A contract like Carasco's does not qualify as such......