2022 Summer League Thread

[Rich]

OK

There is a concerted effort to get him catch and shoot looks and he's not even thinking twice about it or seeing the rim when he's letting them go. I can work with this playing off Garland and Mobley passing.

That finals record setting game for Danny Green against the Heat when he hit like 30 of them in the series and it felt like if the ball found him, he was going to take and make a 3... that's what this looks like. The Boobie Gibson against the Pistons in Game 6 allowing LeBron the space to eventually go Video Game James. Thats what this looks like we might have here as he gets his NBA legs under him with competent coaching.

Truth of the matter, even with praise for his shooting, is that he cant create separation with the ball in his hand and he doesnt have a first step at all. Just like Danny Green and Boobie.

Travers has a better first step and better vision with the ball and that kinda makes me sad.

Bryce McGowens has been the most impressive player all game and its specifically because of his length, age and ability to create shots for himself and others, and that makes me sad.

Ochai doesnt make me sad, just knowing he's a huge undersell of an lottery pick asset.

I dont like that he was the 14th pick with higher ceilings and harder to acquire skillsets/players who fill a need for us on the board but I dont feel he cant fill a singular need for us (dependable outside shooting)

Heres the thing... you cant bullshit his development arc like you have with overlapping non-complimenting young players. You've got to "JBB proof" his development, like now. If you're going to squeeze anything extra out of his limitations, you've got to

Okoro has to go and one of Levert or Sexton has to go as well.

You've got to pencil him in for no less than 25 minutes and you've got to give him the green light to shoot without a conscious so what happened with Windler doesnt happen with him too. Cant have him looking over his shoulder if he starts a game 0-3. Gotta know he can play 25 and let him work on impacting the game in other ways.

We need to turn Okoro and Sexton into that elusive wing and we can work on turning this guy into a ideal, floor spacing 4th/5th starter at shooting guard

Very much thought they made a concerted effort to get him the ball off of movement today and he showed what he can do.

Agree, they can't treat him like Windler. You can't have a shooter always worried that if he misses his next shot he's coming out.

Agree with the stuff about his ability get separation off the bounce. It's not really there right now. Maybe one day he learns some of the finer points of the craft and how to create space even if he doesn't have a great first step.


ANd yea...Okoro needs to go imo.

 

[catfish]

No its 3. I have seen enough. I know a guy who did very well for himself with Maccabiah Haifa. Mobley would fit very well as his running partner.

 

[dark2332]

LeVert shouldn't start. Having LeVert, Mobley and Allen all starting is bad for the Cavs. We need spacing from the SG spot. I really think Agbaji should start. Then Agbaji goes to the bench with Mobley or Allen and LeVert plays SG when we have Klove come in. Spacing matters.

Spacing is created in multiple ways.

LeVert is respected as a threat from deep, even if he’s only a 34-35% guy, and he takes enough volume from out there to impact the defense.

You don’t need a 40% shooter to create space. You need a guy capable of making that shot that the defense respects as a shot maker.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Careful, he might hold you to that.

You don't know me or what I do in my free time.

 

[catfish]

Ochai comparison is Danny Green while Okoro comparison was Jimmy Butler?

Doesnt Ochai look like Butler? He shoots the ball much better though.

 

[dark2332]

Jesus h. It’s one summer league game.

I’m one of the ones arguing taking Mobley won’t be an issue and that we’ll get him in an NBA S&C program and see what we have.

I was also arguing we don’t have some type of family dilemma should it not work out.

Chill, I know it’s summer league.

 

[MD13]

Travers has great vision, but I think you’re still too down on Agbaji.

He looked much better with the ball in this one. Nice passes, got to the rim a few times. He’s not a finished product.

This isn't just rudimentary stuff, he's had a few of these a game that makes me wonder if/hope that we're a couple of years away from some real craft in a PNR. He knows he wants to hit the roll man from the beginning but he uses a hesi and steps towards the sideline to force the big to step up and open up the angle for a better pass and roll.

 

[NMCav]

Spacing is created in multiple ways.

LeVert is respected as a threat from deep, even if he’s only a 34-35% guy, and he takes enough volume from out there to impact the defense.

You don’t need a 40% shooter to create space. You need a guy capable of making that shot that the defense respects as a shot maker.

LeVert has hovered at 32% most of his career as a 3 point shooter. He's not capable of making that shot. And teams don't respect his 3 ball either.

 

[Rich]

Doesnt Ochai look like Butler? He shoots the ball much better though.

Butler has developed into something that honestly would have been near impossible to predict from his early days in the league.

The fact that he's become an offensive hub with a back to the basket game who draws a shitload of fouls is extremely unique considering where he started from.

I just wouldn't count on another player making that same type of improvement with the limitations they show early in their careers.

 

[Cavatt]

Travers has great vision, but I think you’re still too down on Agbaji.

He looked much better with the ball in this one. Nice passes, got to the rim a few times. He’s not a finished product.

I'm encouraged to see he probably has something left to learn while being really good at shooting. His finishing around the rim though, is worse than I thought. Opposite of Okoro, he needs to finish off closeouts or they will play him up close and attack his dribble.

Travers looks pretty good, but he is a year away at least. Needs to tighten that handle and shoot millions of 3s

 

[red.]

Travers has great vision, but I think you’re still too down on Agbaji.

He looked much better with the ball in this one. Nice passes, got to the rim a few times. He’s not a finished product.

I think people get way too caught in age. I was too, but after seeing Chris Duarte get drafted in the lottery at 24, and played well, it reminded me that NBA players used to be 21+ going into the NBA. MJ, Magic, Bird, Worthy, Kareem etc were all old players. Ochai not even close to being complete.

I’ve seen glimpses of what I needed to see from Ochai to know he could possibly turn into a 2 way guard. Hopefully the Cavs have a good plan in place, which I doubt, but I think Ochai is smart enough to know his flaws and work on them.

 

[cabs]

package Okoro, Windler, Cedi, I.Mobley and Nembhard and go get Donovan Mitchell

 

[MirORich]

OK

There is a concerted effort to get him catch and shoot looks and he's not even thinking twice about it or seeing the rim when he's letting them go. I can work with this playing off Garland and Mobley passing.

That finals record setting game for Danny Green against the Heat when he hit like 30 of them in the series and it felt like if the ball found him, he was going to take and make a 3... that's what this looks like. The Boobie Gibson against the Pistons in Game 6 allowing LeBron the space to eventually go Video Game James. Thats what this looks like we might have here as he gets his NBA legs under him with competent coaching.

Truth of the matter, even with praise for his shooting, is that he cant create separation with the ball in his hand and he doesnt have a first step at all. Just like Danny Green and Boobie.

Travers has a better first step and better vision with the ball and that kinda makes me sad.

Bryce McGowens has been the most impressive player all game and its specifically because of his length, age and ability to create shots for himself and others, and that makes me sad.

Ochai doesnt make me sad, just knowing he's a huge undersell of an lottery pick asset.

I dont like that he was the 14th pick with higher ceilings and harder to acquire skillsets/players who fill a need for us on the board but I dont feel he cant fill a singular need for us (dependable outside shooting)

Heres the thing... you cant bullshit his development arc like you have with overlapping non-complimenting young players. You've got to "JBB proof" his development, like now. If you're going to squeeze anything extra out of his limitations, you've got to

Okoro has to go and one of Levert or Sexton has to go as well.

You've got to pencil him in for no less than 25 minutes and you've got to give him the green light to shoot without a conscious so what happened with Windler doesnt happen with him too. Cant have him looking over his shoulder if he starts a game 0-3. Gotta know he can play 25 and let him work on impacting the game in other ways.

We need to turn Okoro and Sexton into that elusive wing and we can work on turning this guy into a ideal, floor spacing 4th/5th starter at shooting guard

While prior to their rookie years it always seems so, their are rarely 12-14 players in any given draft better than a Danny Green level career. So even if you have capped his ceiling at Danny Green. As long as he comes close to or hits that level, it’s not really an undersell of pick 14

Because pick 14 is what he was, but a Lottery Pick in the sense that ore lotto taht has hope of moving up or not a Lotto pick in the same sense picks 7-10 were also lotto picks.

If the judgement of a pick being right or not is based on whether or not any single player taken after them had a better pro career, than every GM ever continually makes bad picks, even the ones that are publicly perceived as hits.
I toss out the Boobie because he was much smaller and a liability even guarding SG’s, whereas Ochai looks to be able to guard SGs and some SFs

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Why do you think his first step and elevation off one leg are so weak? I can't figure it out.

He's flat footed as an athlete just like Danny Green. Danny is pigeon-toed and it affects his functional ahtleticism.

I dont think Agjabi is that, but he jumps and pushes off the heel of his foot when he builds momentum for jumping/running and it makes him kinda flat footed or stuck in the mud as a athlete at game speed. Jalen Williams is too but he's crafty with the ball and knows how to create separation for his jumper and dribble.

It stands out when you see natural athletes like Bryce blow by him while he needs a head of steam and to play angles to return the favor.

But that will come with time, just like it did for Danny. He learned to negotiate underwhelming athleticism after a few years so we'll have to hope Och can do that here in less time.

 

[dark2332]

LeVert has hovered at 32% most of his career as a 3 point shooter. He's not capable of making that shot. And teams don't respect his 3 ball either.

I don’t know what game you’re watching, but they absolutely do.

This isn’t an Okoro situation. He’s respected as a scorer by the defense.