2023-24 Season | Game #39 | Bucks @ Cavs | Jan. 17, 2024 | 7:30 p.m. | ESPN

[boostorbust1]

Thats just untrue tho. Garland/Mitchell has struggled but we have seen good minutes with the pair. On the other hand, Allen/Mobley is the backbone of a top 5 defense. That pairing doesnt just work, it excels. You just have to balance the rotation properly which I dont trust our coach to do.

IMy statement wasn't a absolute statement, of course at times it worked but overall those combinations struggled with sharing the ball and floor spacing which lead to Mitchell or Garland playing hero ball which lead to TO and losses.

Mitchell and Garland are not big enough to put the team on its shoulders and carry them through multiple playoff series with hero ball like LBJ did in his prime. We are only a championship team if we space the floor and share the ball becuase we overall have a small team.

But I agree, very few trust that JBB can get it right but you have to consider the possibility that those players cannot play together no matter if JBB becomes the greatest coach of all time.

 

[boostorbust1]

When Garland and Mitchell are on the floor together (763 possessions this year) the Cavs are outscoring their opponents by 9.5 points per 100 possessions, which puts them in the 90th percentile.

When Mobley and Allen are on the floor together (633 possessions) the Cavs are outscoring opponents by 4.5 points (72nd percentile).

I think the Mobley/Allen pairing has a chance to do better now that Allen is starting to hit jumpers from the elbow. That opens up a nice high/low game with Allen lobbing to Mobley cutting to the rim against a smaller defender. If Allen's man sags to help on Mobley, then Jarrett just knocks down the open jumper or takes one dribble to the middle of the lane and shoots his floater.

Allen's offensive game has evolved nicely since Mobley went down and I don't see that going away when Evan returns.

What will be interesting to me is that when Garland returns in a couple of weeks the starting lineup will likely be Garland/Mitchell/Strus/Wade/Allen. That lineup has played 79 possessions, a small sample, but has outscored opponents by a whopping 25.3 points. I want to see if that lineup continues to dominate.

It got crushed in the playoffs by a weak opponent, regular season stats didn't do us any good. We run the same lineup in the playoffs again will it happen again? More than likely yes unless Mitchell/Garland/Mobley/Allen somehow change dramatically how they play with each other

 

[foucault87]

IMy statement wasn't a absolute statement, of course at times it worked but overall those combinations struggled with sharing the ball and floor spacing which lead to Mitchell or Garland playing hero ball which lead to TO and losses.

Mitchell and Garland are not big enough to put the team on its shoulders and carry them through multiple playoff series with hero ball like LBJ did in his prime. We are only a championship team if we space the floor and share the ball becuase we overall have a small team.

But I agree, very few trust that JBB can get it right but you have to consider the possibility that those players cannot play together no matter if JBB becomes the greatest coach of all time.

I dont think we are a championship team this year unless we have incredible injury luck. We have the right pieces for our current level and need to just let the young guys continue their development.

And I think Wham's post shows that clearly the pairings work. The only data we have of this year puts the pairings between 72nd-90th percentile. That is very very good.

The issues with the Knicks series had less to do with the pairing of our guards or bigs and a lot more to do with JBB getting outcoached extremely hard and not putting our guys in a position to win.

Is the roster perfect? No. But splitting our big 4 right now is not the solution. Fans are too impatient with things like this. Players need time to gel on court and given how young these guys are, continue developing their games. Right now the coach is the biggest issue

 

[avs2000]

History with JBB says he will not be able to get it right and so the new version with Mobley and Garland back is going to struggle.

What happens if they struggle and drop us to 6-8 seed? Do the cavs do anything?

Everyone on this forum knows these two things:
Mobley with Allen on the floor hasn't worked
Garland with Mitchell on the floor hasn't worked

So we are going to go back to what hasnt worked

yes, we will.
Not sure what the option would be. If DM was locked up, I would not be anti moving Garland. And Honestly vice versa. And not now, but after the season if things do not end well

Allen and Mobley. If Allen was the one out, I do not see he putting on the run that Allen did when he was out. Also not sure that Mobley is worth a max deal. He is very nice player, great defense but he also can plateau where he is now. Tough questions to answer after this season.

Tough decisions to be made this season by JBB on how/what this team will look like when Garland/Mobley return. A good problem, but a problem to be solved

 

[boostorbust1]

CPJ mid range game on the pick and roll last night was impressive, so smooth and effective.

 

[Dr No]

Not all of the starters. One of them was +40.

One of the more interesting comparisons last night was Wade/Middelton. Wade played 21 minutes +40. Middleton played 20 minutes -40. It's not an exact "they played head to head and these are the results" but I don't think that was a coincidence either. Okoro's minutes also match Dame's with similar results. Without Giannis, you could see our game plan - Slow down Middleton & Dame and they can't possibly score enough to win. Wade & Okoro sold out on d and the results were beautiful.

 

[MirORich]

Interestingly enough, when those other two starters were playing, this team was lingering on the line of barely making the playoffs, to maybe not even making the playoffs. This current lineup has rocketed the team up in the standings, winning games at an amazing percentage. Almost all of you are enjoying watching this team play right now. The chemistry throughout the entire team has been amazing. And yet somehow most of you can't wait until we get these other two starters back.

Comeback 1 and Comeback 2,

Your devotion and support for Dean is awesome. Love hearing guys who have known a player for over a decade back and support their guy. And love Deans hard work and talents.

However, questioning fans desire to see Darius Garland and Even Mobley back under the guise of how the whole team is playing right now vs. your personal investment in Dean and the knowledge that when Even comes back, it will eat into a lot of Deans minutes and role….like, let’s just admit it is the latter.

Those are two extremely talented guys. And when they return, it is the responsibility of EVERYONE: those two, the coaches, all the other players…to continue this brand of basketball any time they on the floor, whether some roles are reduced or not.

But to act like we shouldn’t be excited at the return of those to, sorry, that doesn’t pass the smell test.

 

[boostorbust1]

But to act like we shouldn’t be excited at the return of those to, sorry, that doesn’t pass the smell test.

We are not excited because we seen the product on the floor and it wasn't good, we see what we have on the floor now and see a much better product, so tell me again why we should be excited to see a product the 2nd time that didnt work before?

 

[MirORich]

We are not excited because we seen the product on the floor and it wasn't good, we see what we have on the floor now and see a much better product, so tell me again why we should be excited to see a product the 2nd time that didnt work before?

Ny product you mean the like 10-12 game early season sample size where everybody was healthy(which wasn’t even 10-12 consecutive games) were they were also adjusting to brand new teammates like Strus and Niang?

I said clearly, when they return, it is imperative that we continue to play this type of move the ball, pass the ball, selfless basketball

You have other suggestions?

 

[Peacedog]

We are not excited because we seen the product on the floor and it wasn't good, we see what we have on the floor now and see a much better product, so tell me again why we should be excited to see a product the 2nd time that didnt work before?

What a simplistic way of viewing things. I take it you are new to the game?

 

[avs2000]

We are not excited because we seen the product on the floor and it wasn't good, we see what we have on the floor now and see a much better product, so tell me again why we should be excited to see a product the 2nd time that didnt work before?

well, the hope is we now know what type of play, of flow during the game suits this team. It is up to JBB and Mobley and Garland to fit in as seamlessly as possible. Will not be easy, but no reason it cannot happen
I will say this, this might be the deepest team we have had since the Price years. I do not think LBJ ever had this kind of "usable" depth before

 

[boostorbust1]

What a simplistic way of viewing things. I take it you are new to the game?

Nope, been following since World B Free

You have to consider that Utah had similar issues with Mitchell, its very rare that a player can change who they are. Not impossible but rare

 

[boostorbust1]

Ny product you mean the like 10-12 game early season sample size where everybody was healthy(which wasn’t even 10-12 consecutive games) were they were also adjusting to brand new teammates like Strus and Niang?

I said clearly, when they return, it is imperative that we continue to play this type of move the ball, pass the ball, selfless basketball

You have other suggestions?

And you think JBB has the wherewithall to do the right thing if they dont continue this style of Basketball? Common knowledge says they will slip into the cavs of 2022 season and go nowhere because that is what they looked like before Mobley and Garland where injured.

We all hope not, but that is hope and not actual so far

 

[Jscc]

It got crushed in the playoffs by a weak opponent, regular season stats didn't do us any good. We run the same lineup in the playoffs again will it happen again? More than likely yes unless Mitchell/Garland/Mobley/Allen somehow change dramatically how they play with each other

The problem last year was shooting and coaching. We still got the coaching problem. We got some shooting now in Strus, Niang, Merrill, etc., I'm hoping better shooting/spacing can get us past round one despite expecting this post-season's coaching to look the same or worse [there are more choices now and better talent; JBB does not do well in these situations] than last post season's.

 

[buzzdog]

Yeah, players never change or improve any aspect of their games. What you've seen in the past is all you'll ever see. There's never any evolution, growth, or adaptation, ever.

Bullshit.