2023 Offseason Potential Targets (FA and Trades)

[JJ_PR]

Do you guys think Charles Lee would be an upgrade over Bickerstaff?

 

[macbdog]

Are they?

It is hard for me to take our front office seriously when we opted to take a 4 year collegiate SG over someone like Tari Eason. A small forward with all the production and physical markers of a bully NBA 3 and we didn't draft him.

Then we are constantly pulling out our pockets like the poor tax monopoly man every off-season. It is like the person who keeps going to the casino but complains about not having any money.

I love how the argument against this is 'the Donovan Mitchell trade would have simply been worse because the Cavs would have included the SF of the Future instead of the 3D SG'. Koby loves his Lollipop Guild lineup, he can't help that Houston went and dropped a couple Baby Giraffes in his lap and ruined it all.

At the time of the trade, Lauri was still here, he was still in the SF spot, and SG was very much there for the taking. Lauri wasn't the long-term answer probably, he was and is a better player than Eason so I don't think you take a SF when SG was an offensive black hole. Ochai in Utah looked like the 3D SG the fans here have clamored for for years, one that not only can hit the 3 but has the balls to shoot. Tarik would no doubt fit this current team like a glove, and I think you can debate fit vs BPA, and yes I agree that Koby may not know what a SF looks like. I still think he made a solid pick though with Ochai.

 

[JJ_PR]

.

 

[adam81king]

My dream Cavs re-tool

Trade #1:
Cleveland gets: Scoot Henderson, Anfernee Simons & Jusuf Nurkic
Portland gets: Darius Garland & Jarrett Allen

Why?
Cleveland chooses to go into a different direction. As of now, their ceiling is second round, which is not enough. Scoot is a great fit next to Mitchell. Simons would be a great bench piece & Nurkic is added to match salary, but he could contribute as well.
Portland goes for players who are proven & young as well. They then have the ability to trade Lillard for players that fit next to Garland & Allen.

Trade #2:
Cleveland gets: Brandon Miller & Mark Williams
Charlotte gets: Evan Mobley & Ricky Rubio

Why?
Cleveland mixes it up to try & have a higher ceiling by going for younger players with high upside. Miller has star potential & Williams has a high ceiling himself.
Charlotte gets one of the best young players in the NBA, a good fit next to LaMelo.

In these scenarios, the Cavs do this to build around Mitchell. He's the future of this team, the best player on the roster & the only one who is close to being a superstar. If you put together a winning team next to him, he'll likely stay. Besides, the Cavs can offer him much more money compared to other teams.

Coaching change
Cavaliers fire J.B. Bickerstaff in favor of an assistant coach who is highly regarded in Charles Lee. J.B. Bickerstaff is not very well liked amongst Cavs fans thanks to some questionable decisions & poor adjustments.

Sign Wenyel Gabriel

New Cavaliers line-up:
PG: Scoot Henderson / Ty Jerome
SG: Donovan Mitchell / Anfernee Simons / Max Strus
SF: Brandon Miller / Caris LeVert / Isaac Okoro
PF: Wenyel Gabriel / Georges Niang / Dean Wade
C: Mark Williams / Jusuf Nurkic / Damian Jones
Coach: Charles Lee

Dawg...we gotta get you a better hobby.

 

[I'mWithDan]

I love how the argument against this is 'the Donovan Mitchell trade would have simply been worse because the Cavs would have included the SF of the Future instead of the 3D SG'. Koby loves his Lollipop Guild lineup, he can't help that Houston went and dropped a couple Baby Giraffes in his lap and ruined it all.

At the time of the trade, Lauri was still here, he was still in the SF spot, and SG was very much there for the taking. Lauri wasn't the long-term answer probably, he was and is a better player than Eason so I don't think you take a SF when SG was an offensive black hole. Ochai in Utah looked like the 3D SG the fans here have clamored for for years, one that not only can hit the 3 but has the balls to shoot. Tarik would no doubt fit this current team like a glove, and I think you can debate fit vs BPA, and yes I agree that Koby may not know what a SF looks like. I still think he made a solid pick though with Ochai.

Williams, Griffin, Eason and Kessler all went after Ochai, in the next 8 picks.

You can't have 4 of the top 8 players from a draft go in the same tier (as a wholly underwhelming lottery selection) and call that a solid pick.

All indications are that it was a reach but he got bailed out by the Mitchell trade, so maybe it will work out if Spider re-signs.

We'll see how it shakes out over the next few years but it looks like a huge miss in draft eval. Thankfully, Koby seems like he's capable of shuffling pieces via the trade market. Now if we can just get a team around him that can evaluate draft prospects, we'd be getting somewhere.

 

[macbdog]

Williams, Griffin, Eason and Kessler all went after Ochai, in the next 8 picks.

You can't have 4 of the top 8 players from a draft go in the same tier (as a wholly underwhelming lottery selection) and call that a solid pick.

All indications are that it was a reach but he got bailed out by the Mitchell trade, so maybe it will work out if Spider re-signs.

We'll see how it shakes out over the next few years but it looks like a huge miss in draft eval. Thankfully, Koby seems like he's capable of shuffling pieces via the trade market. Now if we can just get a team around him that can evaluate draft prospects, we'd be getting somewhere.

Oh, I'm not doubting that Koby sucks with finding big men. He has blinders for anyone not in the Lollipop Guild. But Ochai is exactly what fans here have clamored for for years, and what you need in an offense that is run by Garland: a true 3D SG who can 'shut down' the other teams best G and be a legit 3 point threat. That's Ochai. No, that's not a bad pick. The teams that end up with a Okoro will have the bad picks. Sorry, I've been a fan for 30 years, I've seen my share of bad Cavs picks and Ochai is not one.

 

[CavsKermit]

Williams, Griffin, Eason and Kessler all went after Ochai, in the next 8 picks.

You can't have 4 of the top 8 players from a draft go in the same tier (as a wholly underwhelming lottery selection) and call that a solid pick.

All indications are that it was a reach but he got bailed out by the Mitchell trade, so maybe it will work out if Spider re-signs.

We'll see how it shakes out over the next few years but it looks like a huge miss in draft eval. Thankfully, Koby seems like he's capable of shuffling pieces via the trade market. Now if we can just get a team around him that can evaluate draft prospects, we'd be getting somewhere.

Kessler? While we still had all of Allen, Mobley, and Lauri on the roster, with a pretty big need for a 3&D archetype on the roster? Sorry, but that's crazy pants.

Look, maybe Griffith or Eason develop into a 3&D wing down the road, but right now both players have sizeable flaws on one side of the court or the other. Those same concerns are what caused them to slip and made them a worthwhile gamble outside of the top 10.

Right now, I'd say Agbaji is closer to contributing as a starter than either guy you prefer. I don't know where this certainty is coming from, but you're spiking the ball at midfield.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Right now, I'd say Agbaji is closer to contributing as a starter than either guy you prefer. I don't know where this certainty is coming from, but you're spiking the ball at midfield.

Eason and Kessler had historically great rookie seasons. I'm not sure how it is spiking the ball at mid field. The chances of any player (Ochai) closing a gap this large are exponentially small. 1 NBA season tells us a lot.

Kessler was top 5 in WAR for rookie centers, since they have been keeping that stat. As in, 10 drafts worth of guys. Eason was top 10 at SF.

Ochai had a negative WAR as a rookie and Eason posted one of the 10 best WAR seasons for a rookie SF since the 13-14 season. Calling Ochai "closer to contributing as a starter" is crazy town. Eason managed to scrape that season together on a completely dysfunctional team, playing for a completely dysfunctional org.

 

[CavsKermit]

Eason and Kessler had historically great rookie seasons. I'm not sure how it is spiking the ball at mid field. The chances of any player (Ochai) closing a gap this large are exponentially small. 1 NBA season tells us a lot.

Kessler was top 5 in WAR for rookie centers, since they have been keeping that stat. As in, 10 drafts worth of guys. Eason was top 10 at SF.

Ochai had a negative WAR as a rookie and Eason posted one of the 10 best WAR seasons for a rookie SF since the 13-14 season. Calling Ochai "closer to contributing as a starter" is crazy town. Eason managed to scrape that season together on a completely dysfunctional team, playing for a completely dysfunctional org.

Historically great? Eason started all of 5 games for the worst team in the NBA, averaged less than 10 ppg in less than 22 mpg, and his offensive efficiency was poor by any metric you choose to employ. The only thing historically great is you reaching that far based on a single advanced stat. There's a reason they don't just add up WAR scores and hand out the trophy. There's a lot more to it than that.

As far as Kessler, he looks good now with Lauri giving him a completely open lane to work with on offense (and even there ge averaged less than 10 ppg). He's a drop-coverage center in a league that increasingly has more and more of them. He doesn't have the lateral quickness that Allen has and he'd have been nothing more than a good backup here.

I still have Agbaji as the guy most likely to be the most valuable player of the three. There's a reason that OG is going to get a max deal despite having a very limited offensive skill set: He shoots well above league average from 3 on more than 5 attempts per game. His one trick is THE really important trick in terms of team building.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Historically great? Eason started all of 2 games for the worst team in the NBA, averaged less than 10 ppg in less than 22 mpg, and his offensive efficiency was poor by any metric you choose to employ. The only thing historically great is you reaching that far based on a single advanced stat. There's a reason they don't just add up WAR scores and hand out the trophy. There's a lot more to it than that.

As far as Kessler, he looks good now with Lauri giving him a completely open lane to work with on offense (and even there ge averaged less than 10 ppg). He's a drop-coverage center in a league that increasingly has more and more of them. He doesn't have the lateral quickness that Allen has and he'd have been nothing more than a good backup here.

I still have Agbaji as the guy most likely to be the most valuable player of the three. There's a reason that OG is going to get a max deal despite having a very limited offensive skill set: He shoots well above league average from 3 on more than 5 attempts per game. His one trick is THE really important trick in terms of team building.

Cool, then go find me some advanced stats that tell us OA is a better player than either.

I would literally bet any amount of money on Agbaji not being the most valuable player of these 3.

Let’s set aside all the advanced metrics though, that tell you Eason is a far more impactful player……and just focus on the means to acquire.

One dimensional SG’s that offer floor spacing are readily available every season.

SF’s that can defend 4 positions and chip in offensively literally cannot be acquired….***unless you have a generational player ejecting out of your franchise.

This is an apples to oranges comparison where everyone wants oranges.

 

[adam81king]

Cool, then go find me some advanced stats that tell us OA is a better player than either.

I would literally bet any amount of money on Agbaji not being the most valuable player of these 3.

Let’s set aside all the advanced metrics though, that tell you Eason is a far more impactful player……and just focus on the means to acquire.

One dimensional SG’s that offer floor spacing are readily available every season.

SF’s that can defend 4 positions and chip in offensively literally cannot be acquired….***unless you have a generational player ejecting out of your franchise.

This is an apples to oranges comparison where everyone wants oranges.

I'm hoping this doesn't come off as combative, cause I watched almost zero of their games, but Basketball-Reference has Eason playing 77% of his minutes as a PF, 1% as a C, and only 22% of his time as SF. Does that impact your opinion of his "historic" performance?

 

[CavsKermit]

Cool, then go find me some advanced stats that tell us OA is a better player than either.

I would literally bet any amount of money on Agbaji not being the most valuable player of these 3.

Let’s set aside all the advanced metrics though, that tell you Eason is a far more impactful player……and just focus on the means to acquire.

One dimensional SG’s that offer floor spacing are readily available every season.

SF’s that can defend 4 positions and chip in offensively literally cannot be acquired….***unless you have a generational player ejecting out of your franchise.

This is an apples to oranges comparison where everyone wants oranges.

They're in this thread. Agbaji's PER 36 3PA are three times as high as Eason's and OA shot them at league average his rookie year as to where Eason didn't. OA's TS% was .561 his rookie season as to where Eason was at .525.

OA started 22 games for the Jazz his rookie year which equates to 17 more times OA played against opposing team's starting units than Eason. For me this is the biggest problem with projecting out to infinity based solely on an advanced stat with players like Eason. It's not just that he was playing against bench units, the Rockets were so bad he was often playing against the back third of opposing teams benches. JBB, who isn't exactly known for going deep into his bench, played our two-way guys against the Rockets last year.

Also, it's not at all clear that Eason is this lock down defender who can guard even PGs. Neither his defensive rating nor DPM suggest he's already elite defensively. But even if I grant that he's solid defensively, Thybulle, who is clearly better on that end of the court, went from being *unavailable* in the Harden trade to getting shipped off for second round picks. He got signed for $11M per his summer. When they're as limited as Eason currently is offensively, these guys aren't that difficult to acquire. It's really hard to play 4 on 5 offensively, especially in the playoffs.

I could be wrong. I certainly don't share your certitude after watching two late lottery picks play a single season exactly as the scouting reports suggested they would, but I suspect that OA becomes a two-way player before Eason.

 

[I'mWithDan]

I'm hoping this doesn't come off as combative, cause I watched almost zero of their games, but Basketball-Reference has Eason playing 77% of his minutes as a PF, 1% as a C, and only 22% of his time as SF. Does that impact your opinion of his "historic" performance?

All good.....it is not combative. Position, a lot of times, is simply a result of the other personnel on your team.

If you watch his game film and you are playing a PG, SG, SF, SF, C.....one person is getting labeled a PF right?

Just watch his tape......not many PF's are gonna be guarding Jrue Holiday types and consistently hovering around the perimeter.

His labeled position was likely just a way to get him on the floor more often and the fact that he can slide between both the 3 / 4 and still guard like he does is pretty special.

Holiday, Booker, George, Grant, Olynik, KAT....it is crazy the variety of players he was able to defend as a rookie.

 

[I'mWithDan]

When they're as limited as Eason currently is offensively, these guys aren't that difficult to acquire. It's really hard to play 4 on 5 offensively, especially in the playoffs.

I'll be honest, the way you talk about Eason as an offensive player vs the way you talk about Ochai is honestly amusing.

Per 100:

Tari Eason: 18.1 FGA, 20.9 PTS, 1.16 PTS/FGA
Ochai Agbaji: 15.3 FGA, 18.5 PTS, 1.21 PTS/FGA

Their offensive contribution difference on a possession basis is pretty marginal already......yet you speak about Eason like he's a worse shooter than Tony Allen. Even through the scoring lens, there's not a ton of difference there, other than Eason commands more opportunities, which is a sticky stat as well. FGA are generally earned and when you also pile on top the near 200 offensive rebounds Eason compiled, I think his offensive impact is far better than what you personally think it is. Eason even had a higher OBPM and OWS.

Mentioning Thybulle just leads me to believe you don't watch a ton of Tari on the actual court. Thybulle was / is a non existent offensive player. The highest PTS/100 number he's posted in his career is 13.0 and that was at age 25. Eason shot more FT's in his rookie year (145) than Thybulle has shot IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER (130). This is seriously not even remotely a good faith argument.

 

[CavsKermit]

I'll be honest, the way you talk about Eason as an offensive player vs the way you talk about Ochai is honestly amusing.

Per 100:

Tari Eason: 18.1 FGA, 20.9 PTS, 1.16 PTS/FGA
Ochai Agbaji: 15.3 FGA, 18.5 PTS, 1.21 PTS/FGA

Their offensive contribution difference on a possession basis is pretty marginal already......yet you speak about Eason like he's a worse shooter than Tony Allen. Even through the scoring lens, there's not a ton of difference there, other than Eason commands more opportunities, which is a sticky stat as well. FGA are generally earned and when you also pile on top the near 200 offensive rebounds Eason compiled, I think his offensive impact is far better than what you personally think it is. Eason even had a higher OBPM and OWS.

Mentioning Thybulle just leads me to believe you don't watch a ton of Tari on the actual court. Thybulle was / is a non existent offensive player. The highest PTS/100 number he's posted in his career is 13.0 and that was at age 25. Eason shot more FT's in his rookie year (145) than Thybulle has shot IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER (130). This is seriously not even remotely a good faith argument.

You're putting a lot faith in projection stats for a guy who was strictly a bench player. In real life, he averaged 9.3 ppg on 8 fga per game against other bench units. Now maybe he was on the bench because the Rockets were just a really poorly coached team, but for a guy who can play either the 3 or the 4, he only got 5 starts all year and the Rockets went out and handed Dillion Brooks the worst contract in the NBA this summer so he could start at the 3.