#25: ATH, Jabrill Peppers

[Pick6]

Screaming "he sucks" with very little or no support to back it up is just as lazy. The comments are baseless, unless we are still talking about the Indy game here for whatever reason.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Still waiting for an answer to my question. Not saying I'm right, but the only time I saw him "sucking" yesterday was AJ Green beating him for a TD. Not sure if saying one of the best D coordinators in the league this century sucks is correct.

You're not going to get an answer.

Peppers is playing out of position and learning on the job. Given he's not a total disaster should be considered a moderate success.

Ditto for Kizer. The fact that he's throwing to a bunch of guys that should be unemployed and looking even remotely competent should be encouraging.

Beyond players looking like they have actual NFL talent (which they do), I largely don't get too caught up in the week to week performance of rookies. It will be really uneven on a team like this.

The only truly concerning thing through 4 weeks is how terrible our game plans, in-game decision making and adjustments have been. The staff has been about a 0 rating out of 100 thus far.

 

[Soda]

Because it's a lazy argument and I'm tired of it

I don't give a shit he went to Michigan. I'm not a fucking Ohio State fan. I'm honestly not a college football fan at all

The only thing I care about is the Browns. So stop saying anyone critical of Peppers is solely because of where he played college football because I genuinely could not care less if he played at michigan or Ohio state or literally anywhere else

I was way more critical of Shelton than I am being of Peppers right now. I also have no allegiance against Washington

Then describe it. The way I see it, there aren't "glaring" issues in his coverage. He's not an all-pro; he got beat 1-on-1 by AJ Green when the CB came off the route to blitz. Saying something about where his skillset plays best or blaming him for the fails of the entire defense is more lazy than what I typed (which is actually true in some cases here on RCF).

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Then describe it. The way I see it, there aren't "glaring" issues in his coverage. He's not an all-pro; he got beat 1-on-1 by AJ Green when the CB came off the route to blitz. Saying something about where his skillset plays best or blaming him for the fails of the entire defense is more lazy than what I typed (which is actually true in some cases here on RCF).

I've described my issues with Peppers in depth in this thread. A lot of them stem from how he is being used. I had paragraphs on my stance not even 2 pages ago. Don't try to act like no one has ever raised valid arguments against Peppers and it's all just OSU jokers screaming he sucks

 

[Soda]

I've described my issues with Peppers in depth in this thread. A lot of them stem from how he is being used. I had paragraphs on my stance not even 2 pages ago. Don't try to act like no one has ever raised valid arguments against Peppers and it's all just OSU jokers screaming he sucks

Hard to sift through it all.

 

[vam1993]

I don't know how gregg williams can justify keeping peppers in the angel role next week. Teams adjusted to it and have killed us in the midrange passing game. I know we didnt have 3 good defenders, but we (greg) has shown no ability to adapt his scheme to whomever we are playing.

As far as peppers goes, hes been ok i guess. Hes taken a few awful angles, which may have to do with the increased average speed of nfl players compared to college players. It also could be due to him not being used to having to take these angles. Ive seen much worse on this team. Im willing to be patient with our young talent.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[Lee]

I dont even blame Peppers for the AJ Green TD. It was a bad Defensive call.

It was an all out blitz where our Safety had to cover 1 on 1 a top 10 receiver in the league. You should never put your safety in that position.

Further, the inside technique was wrong, but I wonder if that what the defensive scheme called for there. Just an all around bad call.

 

[buzzdog]

For me it's still too early to make a judgment on Peppers, (I say the same about Kizer). I do think the G. Williams scheme is making it almost impossible for him to succeed.

Peppers has been a pretty good tackler from what I've seen. But no matter who you are, when you are trying to close from a long distance while running straight at a fast shifty receiver with elite cutting skills, it can be a 50/50 proposition at best. Peppers has taken some bad angles and I can chalk that up to being unfamiliar with playing deep.

Until I see him put in a position to succeed by Greg Williams I'll withhold judgment.

He's been mediocre at best as a returner as well, he's no Josh Cribbs. We'll see if he improves as the season progresses.

 

[Ohio]

Still waiting for an answer to my question. Not saying I'm right, but the only time I saw him "sucking" yesterday was AJ Green beating him for a TD. Not sure if saying one of the best D coordinators in the league this century sucks is correct.

You really don't have much other than your "I told you so" behind that statement. ID it on the field.

I, too, didn't like Jabrill at Michigan.

From yesterday's game alone? Only thing that immediately comes to mind is him whiffing on the RB screen TD right before half.

So, that's two plays, both touchdowns, where he notably screwed up.

As for other games, those have already been discussed, but...he's still taking god awful angles and totally whiffing on big plays, he's playing 30 yards off the LOS and still getting beat deep. And several 20 yard passes have been completed right in front of him.

Again, not all of this is his fault. At all. But he's objectively been bad, I'm not sure how any other conclusion could be reached.

3-disagree level butt-hurt. Inherent disdain is a plague, guys.

Moz is right, this argument is just lazy and bordering on pitiful. Why can't people defend Peppers like they defend any other player? Why does he need special treatment, resorting to the "stupid OSU homer" take? It's just sad, really.

But, if that's how it has to be, fine. I'll play along with the stupid OSU homer card right now. I'm not objective, right? Well...would you guys consider PFF objective? They aren't just stupid OSU homers, right? Let's see what they have to say...

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/jabrill-peppers/11780

PFF has Peppers at an overall grade of 36.9. For the record, that rates as "Poor" on their scale.

So where do we go from here? The most reputable player evaluation there is online says Peppers is poor.

"Oh but Hooker missed a tackle too." I remember reading that nonsense last week. Fine, let's go through this. We're all just stupid OSU homers after all.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/malik-hooker/11770

While getting an interception every fucking week, PFF has Hooker at an overall grade of 82.7. For the record, that rates as "Above Average" on their scale.

How about more? After all, there were two other OSU DB's picked in the 1st round.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/marshon-lattimore/11766

PFF has Lattimore at an overall grade of 87.6. For the record, that rates as "High Quality" on their scale, and bordering on Elite. He's rated as the 3rd best CB in the entire league so far.

And finally...

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/gareon-conley/11779

PFF has Conley at an overall grade of 79.6. For the record, that rates as "Average" on their scale.

To conclude, that is three OSU players that have more than double the PFF score of Peppers.

Hooker. Lattimore. Conley. All better than Peppers in College. All better than Peppers so far as pros.

Perhaps the stupid OSU homers were on to something.

 

[buzzdog]

You mean the RB screen where he practically got his helmet torn off? (I was watching in a bar and only saw the play once so I'm not sure which one you're talking about).

 

[Soda]

You mean the RB screen where he practically got his helmet torn off? (I was watching in a bar and only saw the play once so I'm not sure which one you're talking about).

Just... don't bother.

 

[Soda]

From yesterday's game alone? Only thing that immediately comes to mind is him whiffing on the RB screen TD right before half.

So, that's two plays, both touchdowns, where he notably screwed up.

As for other games, those have already been discussed, but...he's still taking god awful angles and totally whiffing on big plays, he's playing 30 yards off the LOS and still getting beat deep. And several 20 yard passes have been completed right in front of him.

Again, not all of this is his fault. At all. But he's objectively been bad, I'm not sure how any other conclusion could be reached.


Moz is right, this argument is just lazy and bordering on pitiful. Why can't people defend Peppers like they defend any other player? Why does he need special treatment, resorting to the "stupid OSU homer" take? It's just sad, really.

But, if that's how it has to be, fine. I'll play along with the stupid OSU homer card right now. I'm not objective, right? Well...would you guys consider PFF objective? They aren't just stupid OSU homers, right? Let's see what they have to say...

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/jabrill-peppers/11780

PFF has Peppers at an overall grade of 36.9. For the record, that rates as "Poor" on their scale.

So where do we go from here? The most reputable player evaluation there is online says Peppers is poor.

"Oh but Hooker missed a tackle too." I remember reading that nonsense last week. Fine, let's go through this. We're all just stupid OSU homers after all.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/malik-hooker/11770

While getting an interception every fucking week, PFF has Hooker at an overall grade of 82.7. For the record, that rates as "Above Average" on their scale.

How about more? After all, there were two other OSU DB's picked in the 1st round.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/marshon-lattimore/11766

PFF has Lattimore at an overall grade of 87.6. For the record, that rates as "High Quality" on their scale, and bordering on Elite. He's rated as the 3rd best CB in the entire league so far.

And finally...

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/gareon-conley/11779

PFF has Conley at an overall grade of 79.6. For the record, that rates as "Average" on their scale.

To conclude, that is three OSU players that have more than double the PFF score of Peppers.

Hooker. Lattimore. Conley. All better than Peppers in College. All better than Peppers so far as pros.

Perhaps the stupid OSU homers were on to something.

I'm just ending this discussion here. Not even getting into false equivalences and self-serving bias. Not worth it. Shoe-horn stats & isolate one guy on a bad team play to mame your perception.

Read-up on what (who I've been both supportive of & critical of in the past) PFF/Collinsworth has to say to teams about his use of it in-broadcast.

http://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/cris-collinsworth-pro-football-focus-defends-data-coaches.html

 

[Ohio]

Not even getting into false equivalences and self-serving bias. Not worth it. Shoe-horn stats to mame your perception.

Woof.

Great read: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2017/09/20/__trashed/?utm_term=.f42e5c05637a

I'm just ending this discussion here.

Oh I agree, it has ended. I got nothin else.

 

[Soda]

Woof.


Oh I agree, it has ended. I got nothin else.

Yes. Go back to not watching & bitching on Mondays. Fairly obvious.

 

[Prime 1978]

I dont even blame Peppers for the AJ Green TD. It was a bad Defensive call.

It was an all out blitz where our Safety had to cover 1 on 1 a top 10 receiver in the league. You should never put your safety in that position.

Further, the inside technique was wrong, but I wonder if that what the defensive scheme called for there. Just an all around bad call.

I'm guessing the inside leverage was to take away the quick slant. Yes Peppers got beat but the bigger issue was that they didn't get home on the blitz... shouldn't be able to complete a corner route on a blitz like that