#25: ATH, Jabrill Peppers

[Amherstcavsfan]

I would rather have Hooker.

But its only 4 games into Peppers career. So anything definitive is stupid at this point.

 

[Chris]

We would all love to have Hooker, but we needed to build this roster and we cannot do that with one player alone. My question is how well are the safeties that got drafted after Peppers doing?

I am tired of this train of thought. It is the reason we keep passing on elite players and accruing "more pix!!!!"

It hasn't worked. No evidence says it's working. So what's the sell?

 

[sportscoach]

I am tired of this train of thought. It is the reason we keep passing on elite players and accruing "more pix!!!!"

It hasn't worked. No evidence says it's working. So what's the sell?

Football isn't just about one player, it is a team sport. One player may be able to make plays, but if he doesn't have anyone around him then he will fail since no player can do everything. The Browns completely stripped this team of all players so they can rebuild it from the ground up so acquiring as many picks as possible to bring in as many players as possible always makes the most sense in a rebuild like our the first two years.

We got the best player in the draft supposedly in Garrett and if healthy he probably should be. We upgraded our OLine in the offseason and hopefully as the season goes along they will get stronger. It always takes time since this is a team sport. We have been building the team from the ground up and it doesnt always go as planned, but we have been able to get a lot of solid players from the moves we made. This season isn't the year we are supposed to win and everyone knew that before the season started.

Now I am not saying we shouldn't be better cause we probably should be better than we have been, but we are also the youngest team in the league so we will have bad days. If you expect the youngest team in the league to be winning all the time then you don't understand sports in general.

Next season we will have 50-80 mil dollars to spend in free agency. We will have 5 picks or more between the first two rounds. Our team will be a year older and guys will have more experience in the league. Year 3 is the year of this rebuild we will see the biggest improvement in the plan and if we don't then I expect Jackson will be gone. It is year three we are supposed to become winners! I am not gonna say it hasn't worked yet, but until after year 3, we will not know if they have done a good job or not.

Next season I don't see them trading down just to acquire more picks like they have in the first two seasons. If we trade down it is because the player is a bit later and we can still get more players to help us. I expect next year to be the season we draft a Julio Jones over trading down and drafting multiple people. We have built up depth in a sense, now we just need the stars that can help make this team a winner.

 

[Chris]

Football isn't just about one player, it is a team sport. One player may be able to make plays, but if he doesn't have anyone around him then he will fail since no player can do everything. The Browns completely stripped this team of all players so they can rebuild it from the ground up so acquiring as many picks as possible to bring in as many players as possible always makes the most sense in a rebuild like our the first two years.

We got the best player in the draft supposedly in Garrett and if healthy he probably should be. We upgraded our OLine in the offseason and hopefully as the season goes along they will get stronger. It always takes time since this is a team sport. We have been building the team from the ground up and it doesnt always go as planned, but we have been able to get a lot of solid players from the moves we made. This season isn't the year we are supposed to win and everyone knew that before the season started.

Now I am not saying we shouldn't be better cause we probably should be better than we have been, but we are also the youngest team in the league so we will have bad days. If you expect the youngest team in the league to be winning all the time then you don't understand sports in general.

Next season we will have 50-80 mil dollars to spend in free agency. We will have 5 picks or more between the first two rounds. Our team will be a year older and guys will have more experience in the league. Year 3 is the year of this rebuild we will see the biggest improvement in the plan and if we don't then I expect Jackson will be gone. It is year three we are supposed to become winners! I am not gonna say it hasn't worked yet, but until after year 3, we will not know if they have done a good job or not.

Next season I don't see them trading down just to acquire more picks like they have in the first two seasons. If we trade down it is because the player is a bit later and we can still get more players to help us. I expect next year to be the season we draft a Julio Jones over trading down and drafting multiple people. We have built up depth in a sense, now we just need the stars that can help make this team a winner.

Except...the players they are bringing in are not making an impact.

Sorry, 1-19. You don't get to tell me they are.

Don't sit here and tell me I don't know shit if I "expect the youngest team to win all the time." All the time fucking what? How about a goddam GAME? How about...be mildly competitive? Anything? Any progress at all?

 

[sportscoach]

Except...the players they are bringing in are not making an impact.

Sorry, 1-19. You don't get to tell me they are.

Don't sit here and tell me I don't know shit if I "expect the youngest team to win all the time." All the time fucking what? How about a goddam GAME? How about...be mildly competitive? Anything? Any progress at all?

Honestly they will get better as the season goes along and become a lot more competitive as guys like Garrett get on the field and Kizer and the OLine get more insync with one another. I am not going to look at how they start the season, but how they finish it. That is what really matters and when 12 of your 53 man roster have played 4 seasons or more in the league, it is hard to expect them to win as a team especially when the majority of the team wasnt here last year to begin with.

I get how ya feel when they should be competitive, but we need to wait this season out and see how they finish. The next stretch of games are winnable so we need to see how they fair against other bottom dwellers and see if they improve or not over this 2nd quarter.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Except...the players they are bringing in are not making an impact.

Sorry, 1-19. You don't get to tell me they are.

Don't sit here and tell me I don't know shit if I "expect the youngest team to win all the time." All the time fucking what? How about a goddam GAME? How about...be mildly competitive? Anything? Any progress at all?

Picks are way overvalued and blue chip prospects are way undervalued amongst browns fan

Time after time after time we pass on elite talent, get a ton of picks back in return, and amongst them don't really get anything productive. Then every single time the same sentiment is echoed. "Gotta judge the trade and the picks separately. The trade was good we just fucked up the picks afterwards"

Well how many times do we have to do that before one elite prospect takes precedence over 2 late firsts, late second, and late third?

I heard the same argument when we traded down from taking Julio Jones. "But that's just one guy. This will set us up for years because look at all the holes we will fill"

Proceed to take Phil Taylor, Greg little, Brandon Weeden, and Owen marecic. Not a single one is still on the team and Julio is still producing at an elite level. So 4 wasn't necessarily greater than 1

Same thing with Mack. Why take Khalil Mack when instead you can have Justin gilbert and Cam Erving

The notion that trading in a dollar for a 50 cent piece and 2 quarters is always the right move even after time after time after time it hasn't worked for us is baffling

 

[Chris]

Honestly they will get better as the season goes along and become a lot more competitive as guys like Garrett get on the field and Kizer and the OLine get more insync with one another. I am not going to look at how they start the season, but how they finish it. That is what really matters and when 12 of your 53 man roster have played 4 seasons or more in the league, it is hard to expect them to win as a team especially when the majority of the team wasnt here last year to begin with.

I get how ya feel when they should be competitive, but we need to wait this season out and see how they finish. The next stretch of games are winnable so we need to see how they fair against other bottom dwellers and see if they improve or not over this 2nd quarter.

I acknowledge a lot can change in 12 games.

But right now it is as bad as it has been. That is extreeeemely disconcerting if you are a Browns fan.

 

[Chris]

Picks are way overvalued and blue chip prospects are way undervalued amongst browns fan

Time after time after time we pass on elite talent, get a ton of picks back in return, and amongst them don't really get anything productive. Then every single time the same sentiment is echoed. "Gotta judge the trade and the picks separately. The trade was good we just fucked up the picks afterwards"

Well how many times do we have to do that before one elite prospect takes precedence over 2 late firsts, late second, and late third?

I heard the same argument when we traded down from taking Julio Jones. "But that's just one guy. This will set us up for years because look at all the holes we will fill"

Proceed to take Phil Taylor, Greg little, Brandon Weeden, and Owen marecic. Not a single one is still on the team and Julio is still producing at an elite level. So 4 wasn't necessarily greater than 1

Same thing with Mack. Why take Khalil Mack when instead you can have Justin gilbert and Cam Erving

The notion that trading in a dollar for a 50 cent piece and 2 quarters is always the right move even after time after time after time it hasn't worked for us is baffling

Fuck. What a sobering post. Wish I could like it 50 times.

 

[GreasySpread36]

The notion that trading in a dollar for a 50 cent piece and 2 quarters is always the right move even after time after time after time it hasn't worked for us is baffling

In the case of the Browns they've continually traded a dollar for five nickels, but your point obviously still stands. I don't think trading down and accumulating lower picks is the correct strategy for an organization in this state. Sure, the Browns have holes in the roster- giant, gaping holes- but what they have lacked first and foremost are impact players. They are never going to get this thing turned around by passing on impact players for role players and roster fillers, because the latter don't have the ability to get this thing turned around. If anything the trade-down route makes more sense for a good team with impact players that has the luxury of filling out an already largely established roster- not a team like the Browns.

 

[sportscoach]

In the case of the Browns they've continually traded a dollar for five nickels, but your point obviously still stands. I don't think trading down and accumulating lower picks is the correct strategy for an organization in this state. Sure, the Browns have holes in the roster- giant, gaping holes- but what they have lacked first and foremost are impact players. They are never going to get this thing turned around by passing on impact players for role players and roster fillers, because the latter don't have the ability to get this thing turned around. If anything the trade-down route makes more sense for a good team with impact players that has the luxury of filling out an already largely established roster- not a team like the Browns.

I see the plan as the opposite way you do, The first two seasons are for filling out the roster and seeing if they can find diamonds in the rough, but at the same time filling out the team and getting depth for the roster. Now we hope in the process to find impact guys like we did with Collins and the development of Kirksey. Years 3-4 they will fill out the holes with impact players that they couldnt find in years one and two. Essentially I feel with next season they need to be willing to give up picks and move up in draft to get players. I wouldnt even be afraid of trading our 2019 first round pick to get another first round in 18. With the cap space and assets we have, we could easily get 4 first rounders in 18 plus put 50-60 mil into free agency getting guys. If we can add 8-10 high level players to this team especially in WR, RB and DB we actually have a shot of being a really good team after that.

 

[Kbiz]

In retrospect, acquiring more picks vs. taking the talent available has hurts us the last 5-6 years. No team in the NFL has drafted as poorly as us in that time span.

With that said, I have been pretty happy with results of the 2016 draft - the Coleman pick. It's too tough to predict if trading down was the right move this past draft.

I want to preach patience with the new regime but it's becoming increasingly harder to tune in every Sunday, especially when it's starting to look like the coaches are not sure how to put our young guys in spots that are going to utilize the most of their talent. Every rookie needs to take their proverbial licks but you also need to cater to their strengths to create winning situations for them to keep confidence up.

If this Peppers deal is part of Williams plan to turn him into a better overall defender, i'd rather see him making successful plays in the box vs. getting beat on long gains because currently, it's not doing a damn thing for anyone.

 

[Ohio]

With that said, I have been pretty happy with results of the 2016 draft - the Coleman pick.

But that is the problem. You can't keep missing on the 1st round picks. Where the elite prospects are. Finding average players in the 3rd round just isn't good enough.

 

[Triple-S]

In the case of the Browns they've continually traded a dollar for five nickels, but your point obviously still stands. I don't think trading down and accumulating lower picks is the correct strategy for an organization in this state. Sure, the Browns have holes in the roster- giant, gaping holes- but what they have lacked first and foremost are impact players. They are never going to get this thing turned around by passing on impact players for role players and roster fillers, because the latter don't have the ability to get this thing turned around. If anything the trade-down route makes more sense for a good team with impact players that has the luxury of filling out an already largely established roster- not a team like the Browns.

If this was 1999 or 2000? Sure. I think trading down is the far better option.

But I think the trade downs have indeed killed us in a lot of ways.

I mean in 2011 the Brown decided that rather than draft Julio Jones, JJ Watt, Aldon Smith, and Ryan Kerrigan? They'd trade down to draft Phil Taylor. a 2nd round pick (Greg Little), and a future first rounder (Brandon Weeden).

...

Taylor was a fine player for us. He was productive, But you can find guys of his caliber in later rounds. Greg Little was a fucking joke. Brandon Weeden was a guy who probably had a 3rd or 4th round grade if you really think about it.

Julio Jones is a 4X Pro Bowler, 2X All Pro, and led the league in receptions/recieving yards in 2015. JJ Watt is a 3X DPOY for christ's sake. You know how humiliating it is to type that out?

 

[chrisrich91]

The strategy of acquiring more picks remains a sound one.

Of course if you move down and blow the pick you're just running in circles.

In this case it's obviously ridiculous to say one way or another if we blew the Jabrill pick, but we can all agree we're blowing his development 4 games into his career. Plenty of time to change that if Williams gets his head out of his stubborn ass.

Also doesn't help that we're lacking CB talent as well as a true ball hawking FS. I think Williams got cute with a strategy to mitigate those weaknesses, but when it didn't work instead of adjusting he got stubborn and dug his heels in.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I also think a lot of Williams defense is predicated on the front 4 getting lots of pressure.

Lets see how this fits together when Myles comes back. Having a guy who can provide consistent pressure can fix an entire defense.

It would be like asking the Broncos to play without Von Miller or Bills without Jerry Hughes. Hopefully everything starts to fit together better now.

Hopefully. I fully admit, I am trying to find ANYTHING at this point to give me hope for the future. Outside of a handful of players *Ogunjobi has been a beast in the run game, Kindred, DeValve* its been so poor.