#25: ATH, Jabrill Peppers

[Triple-S]

There's certain guys I'm more than willing to give up on if they just flat out...don't care...don't have the heart...what ever.

It's been reported that Peppers is upset at his play and has lost sleep over it in fact. I can overlook him sucking in a sea of bad football if that's the attitude he has because I think it will pay off for us.

This isn't Justin Gilbert, Josh Gordon or Manziel. This is a guy on a bad team.

The strategy of acquiring more picks remains a sound one.

Of course if you move down and blow the pick you're just running in circles.

Well I mean 2012 when we had multiple picks...the Browns stepped in it multiple times.

They got screwed out of getting RG3 (who...I don't know..man his career went downhill fast ), and then decided to go with Trent Richardson. Richardson...in theory was a good pick, and if you're investing in a guy known as the next AP? Then yeah.

But...imagine having Luke Kuechly on defense for us...or even Tannehill taking a snaps. Mediocre? Yes, but probably a better QB than who we wound up taking....

The Browns then opted to take Brandon Weeden...who...I mean we all know the story here. A guy who is still in the league for some reason, but a guy you could probably argue in hindsight had the talent of a guy that would have gone in the 5th round.

Could have again had Dont'a Hightower, Harrison Smith or Doug Martin instead (if they'd have decided against Richardson with that first pick).

 

[The Oi]

There's certain guys I'm more than willing to give up on if they just flat out...don't care...don't have the heart...what ever.

It's been reported that Peppers is upset at his play and has lost sleep over it in fact. I can overlook him sucking in a sea of bad football if that's the attitude he has because I think it will pay off for us.

Maybe that’s what Depodesta uses his abacus for...finding guys who will feel about sucking when they inevitably suck.

@Huber.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

There's certain guys I'm more than willing to give up on if they just flat out...don't care...don't have the heart...what ever.

It's been reported that Peppers is upset at his play and has lost sleep over it in fact. I can overlook him sucking in a sea of bad football if that's the attitude he has because I think it will pay off for us.

This isn't Justin Gilbert, Josh Gordon or Manziel. This is a guy on a bad team.



Well I mean 2012 when we had multiple picks...the Browns stepped in it multiple times.

They got screwed out of getting RG3 (who...I don't know..man his career went downhill fast ), and then decided to go with Trent Richardson. Richardson...in theory was a good pick, and if you're investing in a guy known as the next AP? Then yeah.

But...imagine having Luke Kuechly on defense for us...or even Tannehill taking a snaps. Mediocre? Yes, but probably a better QB than who we wound up taking....

The Browns then opted to take Brandon Weeden...who...I mean we all know the story here. A guy who is still in the league for some reason, but a guy you could probably argue in hindsight had the talent of a guy that would have gone in the 5th round.

Could have again had Dont'a Hightower, Harrison Smith or Doug Martin instead (if they'd have decided against Richardson with that first pick).

In all this talk about trading back being a bad strategy, people are making a lot of assumptions when it comes to what the FO would have done had they stayed put.

Namely, people are assuming that:
1) the FO would have made the correct selection had they stayed put
2) the FO would have surrounded that player with the correct personnel to succeed
3) the coaching staff had the ability to develop said player to level they attained elsewhere

Can anyone say any of those three are even remotely true, especially over the last 5 years or so? How frequently have we sat here and said "player X looks good, but he never would have done that here."

The fact is, picking at 5 or 15 isn't a big difference in the grand scheme of things. The difference lies in the ability to identify and develop talent, something the Browns haven't down for 18+ years.

 

[Huber.]

Maybe that’s what Depodesta uses his abacus for...finding guys who will feel about sucking when they inevitably suck.

@Huber.

Think he uses it on himself?

 

[Triple-S]

Can anyone say any of those three are even remotely true, especially over the last 5 years or so? How frequently have we sat here and said "player X looks good, but he never would have done that here."

I used to believe that with receivers, but I'm going to go with the "Josh Gordon/Braylon Edwards" theory here.

Braylon Edwards had a pro bowl season and the Browns were 10-6 with Derek Anderson slinging him the ball. Josh Gordon also had a pro bowl season with Brandon Weeden slinging him the ball. Both of those QB's...freaking sucked. But with a good enough receivers...you can make anyone look good by comparison.

So if you're saying this about a Julio Jones or Odell Beckham Jr. type figure? Than no. It's no longer a valid argument.

Now...with a QB....that gets a bit tricky. Because the only track record we have of the Browns seriously taking a first round, top flight, top graded QB since 1999 was...the first pick we ever made in Tim Couch.

So for Wentz or Roethlisberger...the question for them would be if they could have handled the potential poor offensive line play that our team has had at times. (remember no joe thomas pre-2007, and even then we've had some major league holes on the o-line including last year). Same to a lesser extent goes for Deshaun Watson who I feel a bit iffy about his arm strength.

 

[Jack Brickman]

If this was 1999 or 2000? Sure. I think trading down is the far better option.

But I think the trade downs have indeed killed us in a lot of ways.

I mean in 2011 the Brown decided that rather than draft Julio Jones, JJ Watt, Aldon Smith, and Ryan Kerrigan? They'd trade down to draft Phil Taylor. a 2nd round pick (Greg Little), and a future first rounder (Brandon Weeden).

...

Taylor was a fine player for us. He was productive, But you can find guys of his caliber in later rounds. Greg Little was a fucking joke. Brandon Weeden was a guy who probably had a 3rd or 4th round grade if you really think about it.

Julio Jones is a 4X Pro Bowler, 2X All Pro, and led the league in receptions/recieving yards in 2015. JJ Watt is a 3X DPOY for christ's sake. You know how humiliating it is to type that out?

I feel like that's less an indictment on trading down and more an indictment on how shitty our team has drafted over the past twenty years. Trading down is a fine strategy, if you hit on the picks you acquire. If you don't, then trading down did nothing for you.

That said, it's absurdly early to say Peppers is a bust. We're four games into his rookie season. We also have no idea who we'll draft with that Texans pick next spring.

 

[Lee]

So they put Peppers back to his natural position, he has 3 tackles, looks good, and is flying all ove rthe field and guess what, this thread is quiet?

Why, because no one likes to praise the guy, everyone just wants to bitch about the over rated guy we got from Michigan in the late first round. Now if he looks good, fuck it, i wont comment, just rather bitch about how bad our 2nd round rookie qb looks.

Come on guys, we should eb excited for atleast all 3 first round rookies looking good.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

So they put Peppers back to his natural position, he has 3 tackles, looks good, and is flying all ove rthe field and guess what, this thread is quiet?

Why, because no one likes to praise the guy, everyone just wants to bitch about the over rated guy we got from Michigan in the late first round. Now if he looks good, fuck it, i wont comment, just rather bitch about how bad our 2nd round rookie qb looks.

Come on guys, we should eb excited for atleast all 3 first round rookies looking good.

Truth be told I didn't notice much of Peppers as it was the first time Garrett played so I was almost entirely focused on the front line. At which point I noticed
Ogunjobi Playing very well

I will say you didn't present much of an argument for him looking good. 3 tackles from a safety position, especially one in the box, really isn't telling me much. For the first time in a few weeks his bad play didn't jump off the screen. Is that what we are considering a success?

 

[Ohio]

Truth be told I didn't notice much of Peppers as it was the first time Garrett played so I was almost entirely focused on the front line. At which point I noticed
Ogunjobi Playing very well

I will say you didn't present much of an argument for him looking good. 3 tackles from a safety position, especially one in the box, really isn't telling me much. For the first time in a few weeks his bad play didn't jump off the screen. Is that what we are considering a success?

Yeah, I missed most of the game. He did raise his overall PFF grade from 36.9 to 38 though.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Truth be told I didn't notice much of Peppers as it was the first time Garrett played so I was almost entirely focused on the front line. At which point I noticed
Ogunjobi Playing very well

I will say you didn't present much of an argument for him looking good. 3 tackles from a safety position, especially one in the box, really isn't telling me much. For the first time in a few weeks his bad play didn't jump off the screen. Is that what we are considering a success?

I mean, he's a rookie. Not every rookie is amazing right from day one. Some guys take time to grow into the role, or need to better learn their pro positions. There have been people here acting like the guy is a bust, and I think that's ridiculous for a player who has played in five games, most of which in a role that doesn't suit his strengths.

 

[Snowblind]

I remember on draft night that Gregg Williams wanted Obi at 52, but with Kizer falling that far the team went with him. Seems like peppers was never meant to play this deep free safety role, but has to because we have no one else. Not an excuse for missing tackles though.

 

[Soda]

So they put Peppers back to his natural position, he has 3 tackles, looks good, and is flying all ove rthe field and guess what, this thread is quiet?

Why, because no one likes to praise the guy, everyone just wants to bitch about the over rated guy we got from Michigan in the late first round. Now if he looks good, fuck it, i wont comment, just rather bitch about how bad our 2nd round rookie qb looks.

Come on guys, we should eb excited for atleast all 3 first round rookies looking good.

In other threads today, Peppers has been deemed an "obviously" bad pick. Glad we're all watching.

 

[ajz20]

I am tired of this train of thought. It is the reason we keep passing on elite players and accruing "more pix!!!!"

It hasn't worked. No evidence says it's working. So what's the sell?

To build on your point. On of the few bright spots actually came when we traded up not down in Nojoku. The smartest move we made was not trading down and just taking Garett. The scary thing is I hear Sashi had to be persuaded to sit at one and take Garett. Not all his fault he really does not have the background or credentials to have control over a 53 man NFL roster. It is Haslems fault for not prioritizing the role of a general manger to someone better fitted for the job.

 

[Jack Brickman]

To build on your point. On of the few bright spots actually came when we traded up not down in Nojoku. The smartest move we made was not trading down and just taking Garett. The scary thing is I hear Sashi had to be persuaded to sit at one and take Garett. Not all his fault he really does not have the background or credentials to have control over a 53 man NFL roster. It is Haslems fault for not prioritizing the role of a general manger to someone better fitted for the job.

And yet he was persuaded, so I'm not sure what the big deal is.

 

[Pick6]

And yet he was persuaded, so I'm not sure what the big deal is.

Seriously. Really grasping for straws here. I don't see anything wrong with doing due diligence and exploring all options.