A closer look at Enes Kanter

[Douglar]

If at all possible, I'd rather take Kanter + Valanciunas over Williams--

 

[Jon]

Unless we're simply blown away by JV and don't want to risk not getting him, it's looking like the thing to do will be to draft BPA not named Jonas (whether that's Kanter or Knight) and then look for an opportunity to trade down that would get us Jonas and some other assets.

We just need to play the Wizards and Bobcats off of each other a bit ...

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

My point? I hope the Cavs have fallen in love with Jonas (if true) because they think he will be the better player, not because he is more of a true center and want to avoid a log jam. Early lottery picks should always be about bpa not position. I am not 100% against Knight and Irving. I think Dallas proved that we could play 6'3-6'4 pg's together in the same backcourt. Especially when both can shoot.

What exactly makes someone a "true center" anyway?

The number of NBA centers able both to post up offensively and play good post defense, reliably, is fairly small. The days of Patrick Ewing are mostly over. Those guys are so hard to find that the trend seems to be having centers who are offensively challenged but play good interior/post defense. They get garbage points and putbacks, but rarely have a good go to move. And if that is the case, then finding a "true center" isn't something a team really needs to do anyway. And if that's all he's going to be, then I'm not sure the position should get any kind of premium in the draft. Filling it with a solid defender/offensive garbage man may be the cheapest way -- in terms of draft picks, money, whatever, of filling that position.

Valanciunas may be more of a "true center" because of his length, but I'm not at all sure that should matter.

 

[Jon]

Chandler was out there for anyone who wanted to pay his salary. Boston didn't want to pay Perkins and sent him away for a PF/SF tweener. We traded for Andy who had fallen to the beginning of the 2nd round. Kurt Thomas and Marcus Camby have both bounded around the league.

It's not hard to find a defensive C who can board.

And if you're happy with a guy who can run & jump, then a Ryan Hollins type is even cheaper.

I agree that to take him at #4, Jonas we'd better be projecting him to be a lot better than what those guys became. The funny thing is that 3 of the guys I mentioned didn't come in to the league as defensive specialists per se, that's just how they eventually found their niche in the NBA.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Give us Kendrick Perkins in 2009, and we probably win the title.

And that leads me to wonder if the additional length you get from V really is that much more valuable than the bulk you get from Kanter, at least defensively. Perkins does have a freakish wingspan to go along with that bulk, but if you're looking for a center to defend the post one on one versus more of a shotblocker who gives good weakside help (the Camby prototype), perhaps Kanter is the better "center".

I'm just sort of tossing this out there. V is aggressive, etc., but his shoulders look sort of narrow to me, and I wonder if he'll ever be able to compensate for that lack of bulk that currently gets him into foul trouble. Then again, given the lack of back to the basket guys in the NBA, it may not matter.

 

[Lee]

What exactly makes someone a "true center" anyway?

The number of NBA centers able both to post up offensively and play good post defense, reliably, is fairly small. The days of Patrick Ewing are mostly over. Those guys are so hard to find that the trend seems to be having centers who are offensively challenged but play good interior/post defense. They get garbage points and putbacks, but rarely have a good go to move. And if that is the case, then finding a "true center" isn't something a team really needs to do anyway. And if that's all he's going to be, then I'm not sure the position should get any kind of premium in the draft. Filling it with a solid defender/offensive garbage man may be the cheapest way -- in terms of draft picks, money, whatever, of filling that position.

Valanciunas may be more of a "true center" because of his length, but I'm not at all sure that should matter.

In todays NBA a true center seems to be one that can defend the rim. I am not sure Kanter really does that well. Doesnt mean he would be a bad pick, but defensively he wont be the intimidator in the middle that most championship teams still have. That said, this draft alone wont give us a championship contender so i am not sure we need one. Also, Perkins is considered a true center and recently won a championship playing positional defense. Ofcourse playing next to a 7 foot pf like KG helped. But I am agreeing that there is more than one way to skin a cat...ie build a championship team.

We say it all the time, but position is not about offensive skills but about defensive ability. Your position in the NBA is determined by who you can defend. I am not sure Kanter is a defensive center. Jonas appears to be. Personally I think Kanter ends up the better player so I am not advocating taking Jonas, i am just saying I hope the Cavs prefer Jonas for the right reasons and not the wrong reasons.

 

[Lee]

Give us Kendrick Perkins in 2009, and we probably win the title.

And that leads me to wonder if the additional length you get from V really is that much more valuable than the bulk you get from Kanter, at least defensively. Perkins does have a freakish wingspan to go along with that bulk, but if you're looking for a center to defend the post one on one versus more of a shotblocker who gives good weakside help (the Camby prototype), perhaps Kanter is the better "center".

I'm just sort of tossing this out there. V is aggressive, etc., but his shoulders look sort of narrow to me, and I wonder if he'll ever be able to compensate for that lack of bulk that currently gets him into foul trouble. Then again, given the lack of back to the basket guys in the NBA, it may not matter.

I agree about V, I am not convinced he turns into anything more than an ok Euro center. As for Perkins, lets not forget playing next to KG helped and having an extremely long wing span helped. At this point if Knight falls why not take a shot at him? The only reason why I can come up with is that I made fun of Kahn relentlessly for doing a simular thing, but I think Knight and Irving can do very well in a backcourt together. Sure that doesnt address the big men, but are we trying to force a pick here to address the big men? The again, ignoring the trees in a draft can be a recipie for disaster. Uh, whatever Grant does, its not an easy decisions. Only easy decision imo is taking Irving, after that, its pretty cloudy.

 

[Smooth]

Varejao is the exact kind of forward to pair with Kanter--

But seeing as how Varejao will be into his 30's when Kanter gets to 25, you might want a player like Valanciunas to pair with Kanter.

I've thought about that but I'm not sure that would be the best pairing--JV and Kanter... I know the Lakers have set the trail for two huge bigs inside but I think a Kanter/Tristan Thompson pairing would be better... As you mentioned though, Varejao would be perfect he's just not in the right age-range..

I am not sure Kanter is really a center. I think his game compares more to a Boozer or Love type player. A skilled pf but average athlete. I think if we draft Kanter we might still need an athletic type center. I think the Cavs feel the same way which is why they have been switching their focus to Jonas. Kanter could create a bigger log jam at pf until trades can be made and still leaves a whole at center. That said if jonas ends up a bust and Kanter ends up a fringe all star, you would want Kanter even if it creates the log jam.

My point? I hope the Cavs have fallen in love with Jonas (if true) because they think he will be the better player, not because he is more of a true center and want to avoid a log jam. Early lottery picks should always be about bpa not position. I am not 100% against Knight and Irving. I think Dallas proved that we could play 6'3-6'4 pg's together in the same backcourt. Especially when both can shoot.

Kanter may be a PF on offense but defensively I don't see how he's going to be able to guard 4's on a consistent basis, especially with the more athletic stretch 4's being in vogue now... I think he's ultimately viewed as a center...

 

[Pioneer10]

Really Knight with the 4th pick? Now that I don't understand. He's essentially exactly like V and K in the sense that people are seeing his body and imagining what he could be.

Statistically he was simply not that great that year and I watched his NCAA tournament games: they were not good but he's left a good afterglow because he hit some late game heroic shots.

FYI: I just spent last week praising Dallas's triple point guard spread attack. I think it's underrated and very successful formula to be able to play two point guards who have deadly 3 point range (Detroit Bad Boys, Dallas). That being said the 4th pick is too high for me to want a guy who if things works out projects to be a Jason Terry type.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I agree about V, I am not convinced he turns into anything more than an ok Euro center.

Euro centers tend to be more lumbering guys than guys like Jonas. He actually may be better suited defensively as a center in the NBA than in Europe precisely because of the lack of back to the basket bullies over here. Then again, you do still have the occasional Howard out there where you need some bulk.

I just don't want to get caught up in the quest to find a center equally adept at both sides of the floor, because you don't need that guy. But he's nice to have if you can get him. The thing of most interest to me with respect to V is his shot. He doesn't shoot jumpers in games because that's not how they use him, but I wonder if he's shown the ability to do that in practices. If scouting reveals that he has a decent jump shot, and the evaluation is that they think it can get better, then an aggressive 7 footer with a shot and the ability to rebound well becomes a very intriguing pick. If not, then we shouldn't take him just because such centers are so difficult to find, and he "might" develop into one.

 

[Douglar]

Kanter may be a PF on offense but defensively I don't see how he's going to be able to guard 4's on a consistent basis, especially with the more athletic stretch 4's being in vogue now... I think he's ultimately viewed as a center...

I agree. Kanter could be a 4 or 5 on offense but he'd be a 5 on defense. He'll probably be decent at pushing big guys out of the paint but I just can't picture him being that good at closing out with the weak side help or covering 3pt shooters out by the arc. That's why you'd need to pair him with someone that could be a cleanup 5 on offense and a close out 4 on defense.

 

[mcfly]

FYI: I just spent last week praising Dallas's triple point guard spread attack. I think it's underrated and very successful formula to be able to play two point guards who have deadly 3 point range (Detroit Bad Boys, Dallas). That being said the 4th pick is too high for me to want a guy who if things works out projects to be a Jason Terry type.

I agree, I have faith in the Princeton, and also feel that Gibson could be a solid player in a Terry-esque role. I think we will see several lineups with multiple point guards on the floor between Irving, Davis, BD, and Sessions, all of which have good size for point guards.

 

[Smooth]

Per Sam Amick:

PROJECTION: The big man is a top-10 talent at worst but isn't likely to get past Cleveland at No. 4. There's a slim chance he could go even higher.

. . . . . . . .

SCOUT'S TAKE: "He's a big, strong center, a legitimate NBA center. He plays extremely hard, uses his body well, finishes around the basket. I think he's one of those guys who will have a long career. He knows who he is, and that's what I like about him. He's going to rebound, has good hands, scores around the basket -- you can throw it to him in the post. I don't see him being an All-Star, but I see a solid 10- or 12-year pro."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...onal.draft.prospects/index.html#ixzz1PwpVKInG

 

[Vlad]

Everyone seems to have fallen in love with Jonas, but I'd be fine if they took and kept Kanter.

What caused everyone to think that Kanter isn't an option at 4?

 

[Triumph36]

Everyone seems to have fallen in love with Jonas, but I'd be fine if they took and kept Kanter.

What caused everyone to think that Kanter isn't an option at 4?

I don't think many think he "isn't an option." It's just that they'd prefer Jonas, or even better - Jonas and #18.

Kanter and Jonas are head and shoulders above every other player at #4.