A Thread About Women

[MediumBaller]

Well, it seems like there will still be all-male spaces. It sounds more like they're just opening up a parallel program for girls rather than making current units co-ed, but it's not entirely clear:

Starting in the 2018 program year, families can choose to sign up their sons and daughters for Cub Scouts. Existing packs may choose to establish a new girl pack, establish a pack that consists of girl dens and boy dens or remain an all-boy pack. Cub Scout dens will be single-gender — all boys or all girls. Using the same curriculum as the Boy Scouts program, the organization will also deliver a program for older girls, which will be announced in 2018 and projected to be available in 2019, that will enable them to earn the Eagle Scout rank. This unique approach allows the organization to maintain the integrity of the single gender model while also meeting the needs of today’s families.

http://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/pre...me-girls-cub-scouts-highest-rank-eagle-scout/

I suspect that "maintaining the single-gender model" is why this was a unanimous vote. Sounds like they're poaching the Girl Scouts with a program they think will attract more interest.

Wait so they're making all-girl Boy Scout packs? That's, interesting. You'd think that if there was a high demand for this that Girl Scouts would've adapted to meet it.

 

[Pick6]

Shame on the Boy Scouts for not being inclusive of the other 56+ genders.

 

[Otsego Mar]

This thread sucks and is not what I intended it to be.

Dicks.

 

[gourimoko]

Some shit about it being dressed up and advertised as woman empowering badassery when really it was sexualizing the woman and had girl on girl for the dudes.

I don't see how one could come to that conclusion after seeing the movie though? I mean, maybe I'm missing something... But seriouslyl, you should watch it man, it's definitely a solid action flick, like -- I was hella skeptical but it's definitely a good movie.

FWIW, Charlize Theron is clearly bisexual in the film. I'm not sure why folks would think lesbian scenes were gratuitous though? They make perfect sense given what's happened to Theron past/present. If it was meant for a male audience, it'd have been done completely differently..

Hey, the feminist agenda isn't suppose to make sense to everybody. I'd love to watch you lecture her on feminism though.

Believe me, I've done that lecture quite a few times to so-called "feminists" who use the word as a weapon to bash men over the head with..

 

[David.]

Are feminists working on affirmative action for men in university and equal wages since men are trailing in both now?

 

[-Akronite-]

Why don't they just, ya know, join the Girl Scouts?

They are very different programs. In a lot of countries they don't separate the genders for Scouting. Again, as someone who was a Scout and had their childhood shaped by the program, I see no reason to deny that opportunity to young women.

People just don't want men (or boys in this case) to have male-only spaces anymore. It's important to have them, imo. One semester in middle school we had all boys and all girls classes and it was my favorite semester. I got to be in class with all my friends and not have to worry about girls.

That's interesting. Again, I empathize with those that feel they are losing a "male only space," but that really isn't the case if you stick with the program and get really involved. There have been female adult leaders for a while. Venturing allows girls/women. I worked summer camp staff with multiple women, etc.

As I stated above, the opportunities offered by the program outweigh the value of keeping it a boys club, which isn't part of Scouting's core mission.

EDIT: The current idea of making separate packs seems like a short term compromise to me. The BSA has made a lot of changes in recent history and I just don't see that lasting. It'll eventually be co-ed all the way.

 

[-Akronite-]

Shame on the Boy Scouts for not being inclusive of the other 56+ genders.

I know this is just a shitty joke but the BSA had already changed their rules regarding trans people, so this likely means they won't bar anyone on gender grounds.

This thread sucks and is not what I intended it to be.

Dicks.

This thread sucked from the start.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

That's interesting. Again, I empathize with those that feel they are losing a "male only space," but that really isn't the case if you stick with the program and get really involved.

It doesn't seem like it is being "lost", though. At least from that statement, it looks like the "single-gender" option will remain.

As I stated above, the opportunities offered by the program outweigh the value of keeping it a boys club, which isn't part of Scouting's core mission.

Girls don't have to be around boys to have those same opportunities, though. Just set up the freaking identical thing, except make it for girls. For those who want co-ed, you've got Venturing. Everyone has a choice as to what kind of program they'd prefer. Doesn't seem too terrible to me.

 

[MediumBaller]

They are very different programs. In a lot of countries they don't separate the genders for Scouting. Again, as someone who was a Scout and had their childhood shaped by the program, I see no reason to deny that opportunity to young women.



That's interesting. Again, I empathize with those that feel they are losing a "male only space," but that really isn't the case if you stick with the program and get really involved. There have been female adult leaders for a while. Venturing allows girls/women. I worked summer camp staff with multiple women, etc.

As I stated above, the opportunities offered by the program outweigh the value of keeping it a boys club, which isn't part of Scouting's core mission.

EDIT: The current idea of making separate packs seems like a short term compromise to me. The BSA has made a lot of changes in recent history and I just don't see that lasting. It'll eventually be co-ed all the way.

The separate pack thing seems like a good compromise to me. It lets girls do all the activities and learn the skills, but it also lets boys continue to have their own spaces. I wonder how many girls will join now.

 

[-Akronite-]

It doesn't seem like it is being "lost", though. At least from that statement, it looks like the "single-gender" option will remain.

Girls don't have to be around boys to have those same opportunities, though. Just set up the freaking identical thing, except make it for girls. For those who want co-ed, you've got Venturing. Everyone has a choice as to what kind of program they'd prefer. Doesn't seem too terrible to me.

The single gender option is new because before it was only the one gender.

It's just my opinion that, based on the cascade of change we're seen, that co-ed groups will be made in spite of the policy and will eventually become the policy.

Separate but equal doesn't work and in many areas there likely won't be enough girl interest to generate proper separate troops.

The separate pack thing seems like a good compromise to me. It lets girls do all the activities and learn the skills, but it also lets boys continue to have their own spaces. I wonder how many girls will join now.

I'm curious as well.

Many people will be crying about the death of the Boy Scouts, ignoring that membership dwindled for decades while the Mormon Church had a strangle-hold over the organization, forcing their anti-gay policies. I'm sure some conservatives will try to pit these PC policies with killing the org, but the numbers indicate (the ones I looked at as a Scout during the gay-ban era) that it's been dying for a while unfortunately.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Many people will be crying about the death of the Boy Scouts, ignoring that membership dwindled for decades while the Mormon Church had a strangle-hold over the organization, forcing their anti-gay policies. I'm sure some conservatives will try to pit these PC policies with killing the org, but the numbers indicate (the ones I looked at as a Scout during the gay-ban era) that it's been dying for a while unfortunately.

Biggest percentage drop in membership was the year after they voted to admit gay scouts. The truth is that Scouting has always been strongest in suburban/rural areas that tend to be more conservative. I think the national leadership has decided that the only way to reverse the membership decline is to try to become more progressive, but I think that will just kill it more quickly by alienating the core membership.

As long as the kids who were already in the program were enjoying it and getting value, that should be what matters. The problem is that National sees it too much as a business model where they need to increase customers.

 

[Otsego Mar]

I know this is just a shitty joke but the BSA had already changed their rules regarding trans people, so this likely means they won't bar anyone on gender grounds.



This thread sucked from the start.

Untuck your shit from between your legs.

 

[-Akronite-]

Biggest percentage drop in membership was the year after they voted to admit gay scouts.

That's because there are a lot of church sponsored and conservative people in Scouting, no doubt. That's the reason they had the policies before. A lot of that crowd decided to create alternative organizations that were Christian-focused (the BSA is NOT a Christian organization).

But those policies were wrong, based on basic human decency and the values of Scouting themselves.

EDIT: Keep in mind, it logically makes sense for them to have lost membership as a result of allowing gays. They had an anti-gay policy for years. That loses you a lot of pro-gay people over the years to the point where membership becomes more anti-gay.

The truth is that Scouting has always been strongest in suburban/rural areas that tend to be more conservative.

Absolutely.

I think the national leadership has decided that the only way to reverse the membership decline is to try to become more progressive, but I think that will just kill it more quickly by alienating the core membership.

This is probably partially correct. But the fact is that times changed. It was no longer okay in the mainstream to be anti-gay. The United Way pulled funding from Scouting. People started getting pissed off that the group could host its Jamboree on federal land while discriminating against people.

As long as the kids who were already in the program were enjoying it and getting value, that should be what matters. The problem is that National sees it too much as a business model where they need to increase customers.

I somewhat agree, but I actually think what matters is that the BSA delivers a quality program to every kid that seeks out that kind of program. There's nothing that makes the current membership or people like myself more important than the gay kid who wants to go camping or the girl who wants to learn fire-building.

These changes have been like pulling teeth, with a lot of small compromises and weird decisions coming from National. They deserve plenty of criticism for the way they've played things. And they've always seemed desperate for money to me. After national dues, Scouts and their parents are expected to go out and buy overpriced uniforms, badges, books, etc. Then they need to go out and sell overpriced popcorn every fall. It's ridiculous.

 

[-Akronite-]

Untuck your shit from between your legs.

 

[Jack Brickman]

View: https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/918167410565353473

This is going to lead to a severe uptick in cooties.